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Forum with Congressmen Moran and Murtha Packs Hall, 500 Turned Away

Rep. Jack Murtha:

A town hall forum hosted by Congressman Jim Moran and featuring Congressman Jack Murtha packed a large room in Arlington, Va., Thursday evening, and filled an overflow room, and had to turn away another 500 people. The media was well represented.

Audio: MP3. 75.7 MB, over an hour.

Here's a version compressed to 10.7 MB by Empire Burlesque: MP3.

Photo album.

Both Moran and Murtha spoke strongly in support of ending the war as quickly as possible and pulling all U.S. troops out of Iraq. Murtha complained repeatedly that the Bush Administration contributes only "rhetoric" and no "substance" to this debate.

"Sixty to eighty percent of Iraqis want us out," Murtha said. "And 45 pecent say it's justified to kill Americans. The State Department's own polls say the same thing. It's time to let Iraqis take over this effort. Let them solve their own problems, as we did in the revolutionary war."

"A number of senators running for president called me," Murtha added. "I told them there were two policies. One is redeployment. The other is the President's 'stay the course.' And they're in between. I told them they're missing an opportunity to show leadership. They're so hesitant to take a position."

Two long lines formed behind two microphones through which members of the audience could pose questions. One man asked what the real reason had been for the war. Murtha replied that he himself had believed there were WMDs, that he had been misled by the CIA, that Bush ought to have fired George Tenet, and that at this point it doesn't matter what the reason was for the war.

Moran said that he did not support the war because he didn't trust the intelligence about the WMDs: "It was not verifiable. It wasn't even current." Also, Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with the attack on the U.S., Moran said, and "There were no terroirist operations going on in Iraq.... And you don't go to war without a plan to win the peace."

Rep. Jim Moran:

Someone asked: "Are we building permanent military bases in Iraq?" Murtha said no. Moran said no, but we have spent $700 million on an embassy.

In response to another question, Moran addressed the idea that withdrawal would result in chaos. "The insurgents are primarily Iraqis," he said. "And foreign terrorists will be booted out once it's not in the Sunnis' interest to have them there."

A veteran of the war asked "How come there hasn't been an investigation of the fraudulent lead-up to the war by this administration?" Murtha gave a nonanswer.

Another vet asked "Why not impeach Bush-Cheney?" That question resulted in by far the loudest and longest applause of the evening -- an extended period of foot-stomping, hooting, and hollering. Murtha gave a nonanswer. Moran replied that "impeachment is inconsistent with the democratic process." When this led to boos and hisses and shouts of "It's in the Constitution!" Moran added that impeachment "is not going to happen" in the current Congress, as if he were watching from the stands and not himself a Member of Congress.

Another member of the audience asked whether either congressman supported Congressman Dennis Kucinich's bill to create a cabinet-level Department of Peace. Both gave non-answers.

At one point, Murtha said, "I support what we did in Fallujah, because we're saving American lives."

Another questioner asked about the Downing Street Memo and whether Democrats might consider making a lot of noise about the fact that "the intelligence wasn't wrong, it was a lie." According to this person, "people might then back the Democrats."

Murtha agreed, and said "The Democrats need to get off their hind legs and not be afraid to speak!"

136 Events Like This One All Over Country on Saturday:


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Ask yourself a few questions. Just how many people,GIs, Vietnamese civilians and VN soldiers, died in the last major conflict, the Vietnamese "war", over the Gulf of Tonkin lie? Who swung for it? Why were the politicians during that stupid conflict never held to account for their lies? And how come Westmoreland was never indicted for his lies and distortions? etc, etc, etc. From here on you could ask yourself several other relevant questions but I think any person concerned could and would understand not only the direction of these questions but also the answers.

Site is not working to give me an event. BP, Detroit

one in livonia with conyers:
it's 10 to 1 on sat, jan 7th at
Livonia Civic Park Senior Center 15218 Farmington Road Livonia Mi

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Let's just keep it simple. The words that come out of Bush's, Cheney's,Rumsfeld's and Rice's mouths is NONSENSE.

Murtha said let the Iraqi's "solve their own problems like we did in the Revolutionary War." History tells us that French soldiers fought and died to help us form our democracy. We should do the same for Iraq.

The French helped us AFTER we started our own revolution in our own way and in our own time and for our own reasons. No one fought the Revolutionary War FOR us. Our country was formed from the will of our own Patriots - not started for us by another country; no other country or people had to hold our fledgling country up for years or die for us endlessly. We would not have allowed OCCUPATION.

The 'French' troops brought over were mostly IRISH!!!! Count Arthur Dillon (Franco-Irish name) had estates in Ireland and recruited troops there to bring over the American Revolutionary War. The thinking behind mentioning our war for independence is that we were not an established country who happened to have a dictator.
We were colonies of England, France, Holland and Spain. We were subjects of monarchies and had no standing armies, just volunteer militias, no navy, just volunteer privateers (many of whom were Irish) and let us not forget John Paul Jones of Scotland who volunteered a ship of the British fleet to fight with the Americans. We had an ethnically, religiously and politically diverse population who managed to compromise on most of their differences for the good of all. We had no treasury when we started the war. (Rebellion, as it was called and we were called traitors and anyone caught by the Brits was hung, shot, imprisoned,... whatever.) We already set the example and the formula. Anyone can accomplish the same thing if their will is strong enough. Have you ever seen films of young guys in t-shirts and shorts and flip-flops throwing Molotof Cocktails at tanks and armoured vehicles owned by thugs like Samoza? They got rid of him. They had little money or arms, or equpment, or aid or sympathy, but their determination was great. AMERICAN TROOPS OUT OF IRAQ!!!! Mission was accomplished, Saddam Hussein is no longer in power and it is time to leave. They can solve their own problems the way we did.

I highly recommend everyone watch this Town Hall meeting on C-Span. I caught it last night when it re-ran, and to say there are a few fed-up people in the USA is an understatement.

What this article doesn't tell you is that there were soldiers who had come back from Iraq and Afghanistan, who got up and spoke in dissention from this evil administration. They admitted they were lied to by the military and this administration. I was so proud of them, one, for their service, and two, for the courage to speak out against how they were treated.

There were moments of nonanswers like the article says, from both Representatives. I was truly expecting some vigorous talk from both when it came to answering questions about impeachment, but it didn't happen. I would be willing to bet that there are a few Republicans that are ready to see this administration done with. The shame brought to their party by Bush and Co. is overwhelming. As Murtha and Moran said, it is up to us, the voters of the USA, to bring about change. It starts now.

I am a veteran of WWII and a patriotic, discerning, voting citizen of the US and have up to now been very impressed with the position of Jack Murtha, but know very little about Moran and his position on the bush war. I call it the "bush war" with small letters as my wife and I have followed very closely everything that we could possibly hear and see about the rational for calling this invasion fiasco a war. It is not a war, but an invasion by a bully of a defenseless nation with a reportedly mean, bad leader for the monetary gain of a few greedy profiteers. It is an action of HIGH TREASON by a few men who were never elected by the American people and will lie and deceive to acheive their personal gains. I am totally surprised and dissapointed by the supposedly (I have not seen the entirety of the forum) non responsive answers to such questions as: Are we(US) building permanent bases in Iraq? How come there isn't an investigation of the fraudalent lead up to the illegal invasion? The question about Dennis Kuhcinich's proposal for a dep't of PEACE and other responses.
After reading this synobsis, my estimation of Jack Murtha has gone way down to the level of Leiberman and Hillory Clinton, who I once thought were Democrats, but turned out to be blowhards with no guts.
There is no sense to me raving on as I am old (82), but I feel very, very pessimisstic and ashamed about the America my generation is leaving to my children and grandchildren and that feeling is because we have let that bunch of bullies and thieves take over our country and defile it after the efforts of good administrations both Democratic and Republican. He---- the doubya bushie keeps saying over and over that he will stay the course and finish the job and what he really says to the American people is----I and my gang will do ANYTHING we want to do and there is not a damn thing any of you can do about it---so shut up and get out of our way.


Why should one more American die for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq.

How many time has George WMD Bush said "Democracy".

Iraq is now a T-H-E-O-C-R-A-C-Y! T - H - E - O - C - R - A - C - Y !

The entire US Governent, Republicans and Democrats, and the US Corporate State Controlled Media should be put on trial.

They should be tarred, feathered, and strung up on light posts.

The American People have become cowards, Republicans and Democrats, they are afraid of the Islamo Fascist "terrorists". Have you ever seen a terrorist? Do you really think they are going to take over?
That is what Guns are for, and to fight against Tyranny and Treason.

The Republic is Dead, Heil the 4th Reich, Heil our Holy Leader

I am a Canadian neighbouur who is forlorn at what George Dumbya and his cronies are doing to a great country. You Yanks have got to pull this one out of the fire and the only way to do that is to Impeach them. The world watches with incomprehensing as more ugly facts about renditions and qualifying torture of your enemies. This isn't what you stand for.
No one in the international community wants any part of the "democracy" that you're presently serving up and forcing down the throats of countries that have been brought to their knees by an exultant bully.
Stop these thugs, retrieve the honour of those who have died for nought and bring these inexcreable bullies to the International War Crimes Tribunal.

Canadian neighbor: You've said it better than any American politician I've yet to hear. As a proud American, I'm heartsickened in our leadership. Somedays, Canada's maple leaf does beckon! But...there is hope; our country is so diverse with so many great people and therein lies its strength. This insanity cannot stay.

What a day!! In Tacoma, Washington at First United Methodist Church we started out with a ninety minute question and answer session with Congressman Adam Smith followed by a Round Table panel discussion with fifteen dirrerent progressive organizations. We then proceeded to two sets of workshops and concluded with a conert. 350 people spent a day learning, networking and enjoying each other while renewing their committment to work for peace and justice!

I read this, viewed the C-SPAN footage, and listened to the MP3. My comments are going to be way too loaded and lengthy for this place so they'll be posted at my blog. That's not a shameless plug - I'm filled with rage over this thing and I don't want to stomp on any toes or be pain in the ass for the moderators. My subject line about this Town Hall meeting being a joke is the lightest and simplest way I can voice my overall impression. It's the only way I can deliver the steak and potatoes. However, the gravy line (where I plan on savaging Sen. Moran) will be ladled out at my own corner of the world.

Would be interested in reading what you had to say on this in your BLOG. Where can I find it. I'm not all that computer literate to know where to find this on my own. A friend sent me a video with a portion of that meeting on it and it got me searching to see which where this Moran was from.


If a bunker buster falls
in the desert, and no one
shows you photos
of the shadows
of little bodies
etched on conrete walls,
is the wailing of mothers
still swallowed
by the whirr
of rotors?


Dempcrats in congress have no courage to speak up. they are afraid that if they speak the truth they won't be re-elected. Some of them are in bed with the corporations just like republicans are and they don't want to lose corporate donations to their campaigns. We want every member of our party to speak out loudly and clearly on moving to end the war, corruption,impeaching George Bush because his administration intentionally decieved and mislead the American people into giong to war. Until they do that they will be percieved as weak and wishy-washy,not standing for anything. It is better to stand for something and lose than to stand for nothing and lose anyway, because believe me people will stay home than go to the polls and vote for someone that they feel doesn't really represent their views.

My question and comment to Mr. Moron go unanswered (as expected). Can anyone to whom his rantings made any sense help him out on this one?

I attended your rally with Rep. Murtha on Thursday evening.

In my estimation, there was only one question asked the entire
evening that required a thoughtful response (unfortunately in the
absence of Mr. Murtha). The question, concerning the cause and
effect relationship of terrorism and our presence in Iraq, seemed to
catch you by surprise and your answer was awkward and contradictory.

Did you really intend to imply that an attack or invasion of Pakistan
is in order? Does the nuclear weapon-armed Pervez Musharraf like
your idea?

Moreover, can you explain how a rapid response force of Marines that
can safely and instantaneously materialize in one of the "60"
countries that have a terrorist presence becomes a way of defeating
them without breeding more terrorism? That proposal (aside from its
logistical impossibility) sounds to me like a grand scale version of
clearing out a Jihaddi stronghold in an Iraqi city and then leaving
so it can be reoccupied by the enemy.

You called Iraq a trap. I agree wholeheartedly! We've set a trap to
lure every able-bodied Islamofascist to one location that happens to
also contain the greatest concentration of lethal American power on
the planet. Sounds brilliant to me, even if it is an unintended
consequence. If the trap be for us, it can only succeed through the
weak resolve or the conspiring of the political party that will do
anything to regain power.

My greatest concern follows the most obvious comparison to our
shameful abadonment of the South Vietnamese: We can lose this fight
for the survival of Western civilization, not on any battlefield, but
in the halls of Congress. You and Mr. Murtha seem to be well on your
way to fitting into that historical template.

Thank Mr. Murtha for his steadfast support of my individual Second
Ammendment rights. Maybe, if you get your way, we can bring the
fight in Iraq closer to home and I'll need those rights for more than
putting holes in paper and deer.


I watched C Span 2 with your Town Hall Meeting which was re-broadcast on Monday, 1/9. I would very much like to know how I could get a tape of this for our local Peace and Justice Group. We live in Las Vegas NWW MEXICO and want to plan such a meeting for the near future. Please let me know if there is a tape available and where I might procure it. Thank you very was a great program !
Gretchen Bush (no relation !)

I'm of the Viet Nam generation. I watched my friends get drafted and sent to Viet Nam. Several of them died there, including a boyfriend. Others came back but were never the same. We didn't belong there. Now we have another administration sending our men AND women to Iraq. When this first started, those of us who lived through Viet Nam and lost our friends and loved ones there knew this was going to be Viet Nam all over again - and we were right -UNFORTUNATELY ........ We don't belong in Iraq. It was a lie that got our country involved there and it is lies that will keep us there - the only winners in a war are big business who line their pockets with the blood of our troops. If the real purpose of invading Iraq was to get rid of Sadam Hussein, then we did it - let's get out and bring our troops home! Let them get on with the business of rebuilding their government and lives. They don't need our government to tell them who should be running their country. Just look at what a great mess our admin has this country in now!!!!!!

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