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The End is at Hand (to Leftist Conspiracy Theories)


By Dave Lindorff

With the polls continuing to show Barack Obama holding a steady or even growing lead heading into Election Day, especially in the key swing states of Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida, Colorado, New Hampshire and Virginia, and with Democratic challengers looking strong in at least 10 Senate races and dozens of open-seat or Republican-held House races, it’s looking like this will be a big win for Democrats, both in the presidential and the Congressional races.

Hopefully one thing such an across-the-boards win will lead to would be a withering away of the self-destructive conspiracy-theory paranoia that has gripped much of the Left over the last eight years.

Once largely emblematic of the far Right, which saw black helicopters of the dreaded United Nations behind every mountain, Jews running everything, Communists working nefariously under every bed, fluoridation plots, an immigrant assault on the Anglo-Saxon gene pool, and a liberal cabal out to steal their assault hunting rifles, now the Left is awash in the same kind of fevered thinking.

Chief among the leftist conspiracy theories are that the Bush/Cheney administration was behind the 9-11 attacks, that the current administration has plans to cancel or annul the November 4 election and institute martial law, that there are plans for a “false flag” attack on American forces which will be used to justify an all-out war against Iran, that there is a false-flag terror attack planned inside the US set for before the election, designed to throw the vote towards John McCain, that the Wall Street meltdown and subsequent bail-out are a deliberate scheme to steal the nation’s assets and funnel them into Republican pockets, and that Republican operatives have the technological capability, and plan to steal the current election by manipulating the results on the electronic voting machines used by many election districts. In a variant of the Right’s anti-Semitic ravings, the Left attributes god-like powers to the Israel lobby and its formal lobbying organization, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC)

Never mind that some of these conspiracies are mutually exclusive (if Bush and Cheney are going to declare martial law, they should have no need to steal the election), or that it’s getting pretty late in the game for others to actually happen. The common thread running through these conspiracies is that “they” (the Republicans, AIPAC or the ruling corporate elite, as the case may be), have superhuman powers beyond our wildest imaginations, as well as flawless execution, and are going to achieve their evil ends no matter what we do.

Following this line of thinking (if it can be called that), there’s no point in voting, because “they” are going to steal the election anyhow (and that, of course, is if the election is even held next week!). There’s no point in going to rallies or marches in Washington DC, because “they” are going to attack Iran and start World War III anyhow. Public protest is also dangerous, because “they” are going to declare martial law, and then all of us who go out and publicly oppose the government will end up locked away in detention camps in the Mojavi desert.

I confess, as a journalist, to having unwittingly aided and abetted some of this conspiracy thinking, for example with my reporting on the evidence that all four of the so-called “black boxes” from the two planes that hit the World Trade Center on 9/11 were recovered, and that the FBI actually has them, despite its testimony to the contrary before the 9-11 Commission. I make no apology for, and still stand by that report, which was based upon reliable sources at the National Transportation Safety Administration and in the New York Police Department, but I want to stress that such a report does not justify going beyond asking the logical question, “What is the government hiding here?” to making the wild speculation that it means the government planned and carried out those attacks.

I also reported on solid evidence in 2006 that the Bush/Cheney administration was moving several aircraft carrier battle groups into position in the Persian Gulf in advance of Congressional off-year elections in what appeared to be possible plans for an attack on Iran. I still believe that may have been the administration’s game plan, but that it was derailed by senior Republican leaders who prevailed on James Baker, chair of the Iraq War Study Group, to release his team’s bi-partisan study three months early, which called for negotiations with Iran and Syria in order to bring peace and stability to the Iraq region. I would add that this is a far cry from imagining that the administration was planning to fake an Iranian attack on American forces.

I am not saying that governments don’t engage in treacherous conspiracies. Certainly the faked tale of a Gulf of Tonkin incident was a conspiracy designed to allow the Johnson administration to begin an all-out war against the Vietnamese. And certainly there was a conspiracy in the Bush/Cheney administration during 2002 and early 2003 to mislead and lie to the Congress and the American people about Saddam Hussein’s alleged links to 9-11 and to global terrorists. But those relatively simple conspiracies actually prove my point—both have been clearly exposed thanks to leaks, turncoats, and good investigative reporting.

What I am saying is that the grander conspiracies being concocted in the more fevered brains of some people on the Left do not hold up under careful and critical inspection. The biggest failings they share are two: first of all, conspiracies as grand as multi-state election thefts via electronic fraud, and the carrying out of a two-front, high-casualty mass terrorist act on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, require the cooperation of such large numbers of people that leaks, turncoats, informants and simple screw-ups are inevitable; and secondly, this administration in particular has shown itself to be phenomenally inept, intellectually stunted, and tactically clueless. The War in Iraq, which was supposed to be a “cakewalk,” has been an unmitigated disaster for Republicans. The War in Afghanistan is a fiasco. The War on Terror, while a success in terms of helping Republicans win seats in Congress in 2002, and Bush to win re-election in 2004, has been a bust longer term. Management of the US economy has been a model of incompetence. So has the grand plan to crush Democrats and create a dominant Republican Party for the next century. The Rovian campaign strategy of lies, smears and dirty tricks, while initially successful, appears to have worn out its effectiveness in just three two-year national election cycles.

None of this would matter except that I think the Left’s embrace of conspiracy-theories has become profoundly damaging to the whole progressive movement. Conspiracy thinking produces a deep cynicism towards positive action and towards the kind of long-term organizing upon which real social and political change depends. When people think that the fix is in, they are not inclined to put time and energy into the hard work of organizing unions, working to get local candidates elected to office, running for positions on party committees, etc. Conspiracy thinking also leads people on the left to completely write off the Democratic Party as a vehicle for progressive change, as the notion that “they” run everything is broadened to include in the term “they” the elected Democrats in the White House and Congress. Democrats may be weenies, but such a conflation of Republicans and Democrats is also self-defeating nonsense, as is the notion that Obama is “just another tool” of the corporate/imperialist power structure. Democrats are not just Republicans by another name, and Obama is not just McCain or Bush with a better tan.

The reality is that if Obama is elected president, and if Democrats end up gaining solid control of Congress, it will be critically important for progressives to organize powerfully to press this new government to do the right things—promptly ending the two wars in the Middle East, taking strong and far-reaching action to tackle global warming, restoring some basic equity to the economic and tax system, making health care affordable and available to all, restoring the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, demanding punishment for those in the current administration who have committed crimes, and so on.

We cannot expect Obama, or the Democrats in Congress who have proven themselves to be such gutless compromisers, to take significant progressive actions on their own. They must be driven by force of public action to do the right thing.

Maybe when this election goes right and isn’t stolen, making Obama the president, and debunking the vote-theft fear-mongers, and when Obama goes on to be inaugurated in January, without being blocked by a military coup, these paranoid conspiracy theories will fade away and people on the Left will start working to make change happen instead of imagining reasons why it can’t or just moaning that “they” are going to destroy us all.
___________________
DAVE LINDORFF is a Philadelphia-based journalist and columnist. His latest book is “The Case for Impeachment” (St. Martin’s Press, 2006 and now available in paperback). His work is available at www.thiscantbehappening.net

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Indeed there were black helicoptors in Denver this year... The US military is beginning operations in our cities aka "Brigade Homeland". Barack Obama has stated he wants to widen the war in Afghanistan - so there will be no "ending the two wars in the Middle East." They don't listen to us anyway. Try it sometimes... Write letters etc. See what you get back. They just don't care. And what is more? Here is another author trying to pit "right" against "left" and again, it is all either a diversionary tactic, or simply wishfull thinking on his part. He tries to ridicule the so-called "conspiracy theorists" when all they have done is shed light upon and propose the only working explanation of why things are so screwed up.

So, I dare ya all to read the following:

America: Wake Now From Your Dream – Before
it Becomes a Nightmare!

Defeating the Two-Party System and The Federal Reserve is paramount to the survival of our Constitutional Republic. Both parties work toward the same end. Everyone needs to understand this or we will never take our country back. Does anyone wonder why the Democrats did not do what they were elected to do in 2006?
The issues that divide us all need to be scrutinized. That means each and every person needs to open their own mind and do some soul searching. Why is it you believe what you do? What is really going on? The information is there, if only one digs deep enough. It is imperative that everyone understand what is really happening. There is a REASON our country is so screwed up.
Why is it that most people readily dismiss information that is not main-stream? Why is it that people allow themselves to be jeered into being afraid to entertain a thought, simply because of what someone else has pre-labeled that thought to be? Folks need to stop being afraid of being labeled "unpatriotic" or "paranoid" because they dare to entertain a so-called "conspiracy theory." How did the people of this nation come to accept the propaganda they are fed, and why do these labels make a person instantly "choose" to turn off their reasoning processes? Those pushing an agenda are the very people perpetuating the negative connotations associated with these labels. In the process, they are successful at stifling genuine critical thought - Thoughts that would make you critical of THEM!
And they do have an agenda - hidden from most, that explains everything.
It is time to grow up. That means shedding the belief system that will continue to allow a minority of "elite" to rule over us all. It is time to wake up. Life is not the way it seems. Hopefully people won't have to die, or watch their children die before they stop dreaming. And no, I'm not crazy, and neither is anyone else bold enough to break out of their mental prison.

For accurate information on the current situation, please visit the following links:
www.afterdowningstreet.org
www.democracynow.org
www.wearechange.org
www.infowars.com

ON THIS ISSUE.
Demand a new 9-11 INVESTIGATION Like MILLIONS of people are demanding and this will prove: that YOU ARE WRONG!

You are accusing people like MIKE GRAVEL,CYNTHIA MCKINNEY, PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS and thousands of ARCHITECHS, INGENEERS and SCIENTIFICS, Demolition experts here and around the world of PARANOIDS?

SHAME ON YOU!

The reality is that THEY DI IT (PNAC-NEOCONS) and there is the POSSIBILITY that they can DO IT AGAIN!

How they did it exactly?
ONLY DICK CHENEY KNOWS.

Yes, there are SOME SPECULATORS going far to the "IMAGINARY SIDE" but ALL the SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE is there to prove that "YOU ARE WRONG"!

There is evidence that shows that massive voter manipulation takes place,he points out inconsistancies in the 9-11 investigation, and members of congress are being threatned with Martial Law. We want to know why these non rational actions seem to be the only actions our government takes. There is not a debate that americans are being fed fear,lies and cover ups the question is who benifits from it. chris dorsey

"first of all, conspiracies as grand as carrying out of a two-front, high-casualty mass terrorist act on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, require the cooperation of such large numbers of people that leaks, turncoats, informants and simple screw-ups are inevitable"
The thing is, they DIDN'T cover up their tracks all that well. You just have to be willing to dig for the answers.

It's not hard to come up with a scenario in which fewer people knew the details of the attacks than in the "official" conspiracy theory. Only a dozen or so persons in key positions would need to know the details. They would give the orders revealing minimal information, and the people below that would be absolutely clueless.

Given the massive scale of intelligence agencies and clandestine operations that have been kept from the public for decades, a false flag project of 9/11 scale would be tiny by comparison.

Look, it's obvious that the government was at the very least complicit in the attacks. It's absurd to attribute the massive and unprecedented failure at multiple levels to stop the attacks as mere incompetence.

Half of the 9/11 conspiracy "theories" out there are just plain bullshit. If the following article doesn't convince you that the official story is a lie, nothing will:
http://www.journalof911studies.com/articles/Intersecting_Facts_and_Theor...

See also: Operation Northwoods, PNAC.

Cui bono?

And yes, I saw that video of you talking about the black boxes that you know the FBI does indeed have.

You are very convinced of that fact.

Now pretend you are a Architect, like Richard Gage, and pretend you know for a fact that building can't collapse at the speed of gravity, through their own mass, and the mass of undamaged buildings below.

Now pretend you are a pilot, the the 100s of pilots of Pilots for 9/11 Truth that ALSO know that that particular commercial airliner couldn't have made that decent and turn the way they said it did. And they too have facts and physics to back it up.

Now pretend you worked for Underwriters Lab. when they tested the assemblies for the NIST report, and when the report came out, it used a key piece of evidence as the reason for the collapse, something that the tests at U.L. didn't show. At all.

Now pretend Mr. Lindorff, that you are an educated person, like you are, and you read a lot, and you have read many of these reports and many others as well.

To me, that doesn't make me crazy. What would be "crazy" would be if all of those facts, and the many others that I have read did NOT point me in the direction of asking for a new investigation.

Because, quite frankly Dave, I'm smart enough to know that 47 story steel framed buildings DO NOT collapse into a broken up pile of rubble ready for hauling off in their own footprint without damaging the two buildings next to them, ... because of an office fire on one floor. And that is what the NIST report boils down to (based on a computer simulation that they won't let people see how they set the perameters up in the program to get it to do that).

Now, that being said, I want you to remember how you just said that you stand by your comment that the FBI is holding those black boxes...

... now, I want you to tell me, why. Why would they do that dave? National Security?

Oh, and by the way, let me ask you something... who did you want to win the democratic primary? Let me guess... Dennis Kucinich? Strange, that's how many people feel that I talk to... and yet, Obama seems to have won. a pro-free-trader who promises to continue the GWOT... "won".

Any day, any time, any where you want to debate the events of 9/11 with me, a nobody, I would LOVE it. You bring your Power Point presentation and I will borrow some of Richard Gage's. Or maybe Richard would be kind enough to stop by and fill in for me.

But it has to be live, in front of an audience (for free) and it has to be broadcast, and I am sure we could get that worked out.

Personally I would love to see you try to redefine the law of conservation of momentum when Mr. Gage is on stage. Or maybe the melting point of A-36 structural steel vs the maximum tempature of a dirty open fire...

But something tells me you won't be able to find the time.

I hope you are right about the election, i really do. But if you think that you or any body else is going to be able to pressure Obama after he is in office when we couldn't pressure a silly Speaker of the House to impeach the most criminal president in history, you are the one who is delusional.

If Obama wouldn't be pressured on FISA right before the election, what makes you think he will cave to your immense powers after he takes office?

Just wanted to compliment your comment... but as you know, 9/11 Inside Job Deniers don't debate in public. I also commented below.

Thanks

ixoxi

Why has an army brigade been deployed in the US to deal with civil unrest, and why has the ACLU investigated it?
As one of the commenters mentioned, are all of the scientists and architects, and demolition experts wrong about Building 7?
And honestly, if you haven't been following the trail of election fraud, voting machines flipping democratic votes to republican votes, supression of voters by eliminating their names from eligibility lists, sending notices to people telling them to vote on November 5th, then you're asleep at the wheel.
I have never stopped writing to my representatives and senators, to Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid throughout these 8 years of unmitigated abuse of the American people by this rogue government. I recognize the cynicism you are talking about, but almost everyone I know is gleefully and hopefully voting for Obama.

By the whay Mr.Linforff you shuold take a look to this "CONSPIRACY SITE" in case you didn't:

FULL of "Conspiracy Experts" of all parties:

http://www.ae911truth.org/

Even KUCINICH and PAUL are supporters of a new investigation.

if you believe this shit david lindorff is pushing, you believe that the tooth faerie will save you from MARTIAL LAW, too.

I don't know if he got delusional recently, has an overly simplistic way of seeing the 'treat' of the fascist, dominionist right wing of the putsch that took over the nation, or simply hit his head in a bad fall and lost half of his marbles.

to minimalize the threat these GOP fuckers pose to rational, sane living in this nation, is to pretend that a guy wielding a baseball bat won't hit you with it because you are wearing glasses and immune from being whacked with it.

Lindorff is obviously lost in space without his helmet on here with his assertions that if we all just mellow out and breathe easy, it'll all go away.

it won't go away. We have lost a lot of our freedoms and liberties, and those aren't going to restore themselves with an Obama presidency, or a DINOCRAT majority in Congress and the Senate.

assuming we end up with a veto proof 60 plus SENATE SEATS handed to the DINOCRATS, my supposition is that we'll still be subjected to outrageous infringements and encroachments on our liberty, our freedom, and our financial prosperity here in this nation until ALL OF THEM ARE BODILY THROWN THE FUCK OUT OF OFFICE AND REPLACED WITH PEOPLE WHO WON'T CORNHOLE US AS A SPORT!

get real, David. wake up. we are living in a NIGHTMARE, and wishful thinking isn't going to alleviate it one bit!

come on [Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 2008-10-31 00:10] say what you really mean ... i agree that dave is either foolish or deliberately delusional ... but there could be one other theory; americans are just too stupid and gullible to be the caretakers of america.

I have cited your work multiple times in my videos, singing your praises without reservation. I guess I'll have to think twice about doing that from now on.

Is it a wild leftist conspiracy theory to recognize that Barack Obama has refused to commit to having us completely out of Iraq by the end of his first term?

Are we drinking the nutjob koolaid if we can hear the words from his own mouth, with our own ears, that he wants to put more troops in Afghanistan, where we have now begun to hear talk of negotiating with the taliban? And for what reason would such negotiations happen, other than the fact that the purveyors of that failed effort can see the writing on the wall and are looking to save as much face as possible when we are forced to pull out?

Are we completely off our rockers if we can recall Obama's promise to vote against the FISA bill (you know, the one that gutted the Fourth Amendment and gave retroactive immunity to telecoms for their role in Bush's illegal spying program), and even filibuster it if necessary, only to see him do a complete 180 and betray our trust with a vote FOR the bill?

Should we be looking over our shoulder for the guys in the white suits who want to put us in the rubber room if we can remember that we gave democrats control of Congress two years ago to end the war and bring accountability for the Bush administration's crimes, and we're angry not only because they have accomplished nothing, but also because Obama is playing right along with the stall tactics, even as he prepares to move into the White House? We have been hammering these people for two years to do what we gave them the power to do in the last election, without response. Why should we believe they will listen after this one?

Are we ready for the asylum if we're smart enough to recognize that Nancy Pelosi, as Speaker of the House, could simply refuse to bring any war funding bill to the floor for a vote, thereby effectively ending the war, and that she has lied repeatedly about this fact?

I say those who still believe the myth of a two party system inside the Beltway are the ones who need to be committed.

Unfiltered Video Commentary:
BAILOUT: 850 Billion? Try FIVE TRILLION!

Economist Michael Hudson says Paulson should be in jail

That last one, knowing Pelosi actually had the power to end the Iraq War and did not is for us paranoid lefties... sure, who is doing the Progressive movement more damage, those unveiling the beltway for all that it does to perpetuate corruption, or those who protect its status?

Good comment.

ixoxi

Mr. Lindorff there are conspiracies and there are theories and there are theories about conspiracies. A conspiracy is by definition a secret or a false flag operation. Conspirators do not openly proclaim their plans.

The important thing to remember when things start happening that defy the laws of physics and/or things happen that are all screwed up is that most likely somebody is telling a whopper and things are not as they appear.

We can only hope that all is well, that no elections will ever be stolen again, and that the tooth fairy is looking after us. If that is not the case, it might be wise to be forewarned.
4Peace

When you make a strawman out of these theories by adding that bit about superhuman powers, then they're that silly and they can be mutually exclusive. But if you simply assert that Republicans are trying to steal the election and may or may not succeed, then you can look at the evidence of vote suppression and machines flipping votes that is available in every newspaper and viewable on Youtube. The election is less likely to be stolen for the same reason you're willing to predict the winner: the lead in the polls is huge. But less likely is not the same as impossible, and a landslide should not be allowed to be turned into a squeaker either. Every goddamned vote should be freely made and verifiably counted regardless of how silly or paranoid someone may seem.

Now, I agree with you on the 9-11 stuff, unlike lots of prolific visitors to my website, and I think martial law is highly unlikely but steps in the direction of martial law have already been made and been accepted -- which is dangerous; fascism doesn't come overnight. Lies about Iranian attacks on Americans have ALREADY been attempted and have not been effective. They're already engaged in proxy attacks in Iran and direct attacks in Pakistan and Syria. Paulson's Plunder is stuffing Republican pockets whether you think that was one of the main motivations for it or not.

Your theme is a good one, but oversimplifying doesn't help it.

9/11 "stuff" is pretty broad ... that's like saying I don't believe in ... "stuff"

Could you perhaps be the intelligent person you claim to be here and enlighten us with something more specific ... I for one think you owe a little better explanation then that to your "prolific" visitors here ... if your going to be SO dismissive of a subject SO important to your overall cause ... And if you simply DON'T care about Documented 9/11 FACTS doesn't that justify people like Pelosi or Conyers not caring about YOUR documented facts when you honestly tried to show THEM ... put yourself in our shoes David Swanson ... I'm surprised I would have to even ask you to ....

I noticed your post right after mine got posted below it. I want to tell you that you're correct that the issue needs the attention of the blogosphere, and "truth-seekers" particularly. But I want you to consider the huge amount David is doing on behalf of progressives in other related fall-out, and that "right before the election" is not a good time to corner him into analysis, conviction or direction.

David Swanson's work is irreplaceable today, and we will have an opening with a dominant democratic majority and sympathetic president in a few days. If the American system continues to rely on LIES, OBFUSCATION, COVERUP, AND OFFICIAL MISCONDUCT/WAR-CRIMES I will be deserting every "moderate" faux-seeker-of-truth in favor of the China-Russian Invasion... and I'm hardly joking about that: The world is done with American criminality and its endless self-appointed piety, if we Americans do not face it, the world will! I will not be part of a fake nation or its people or its fake "truth" or liberseize... if you know what I mean.

"Owe no man anything but to love him"

ixoxi

But with all due respect ... David has had seven years to look into this subject as have I ... and for him to not only personally ignore the subject ... but to also ridicule it as he has on several occasions here is beyond insulting ... especially when he does it with nothing specific to back up his "this 9/11 "stuff" is ridiculous" type comments. It's just as insulting as when other people(like Pelosi and Conyers or the recent "Palin supporter" barrage) do THE EXCACT SAME THING TO DAVID in regards to his impeachment "stuff" or now(I guess) his prosecuting Bush and his cohorts(maybe) "stuff" ...

If you guys think ignoring 9/11 is going to be "OK" just because Barrack Obama is in charge and "sympathetic" your in for a rude awakening when our REALLY young people start getting cultivated for our new wars in Pakistan, Russia, China, Syria, Iran, most of South America, some of Africa and many, many others I'm sure including perhaps the american people themselves at some point, all due to Bush's "War on Terror" justifiable ONLY because of 9/11 ... And I also seem to remember that Pelosi and Conyers were "sympathetic" to your cause right before THEIR last elections to just like Barrack ... even more so actually ... How did that go for ya??

Now ... If your going to arbitrarily insult my intelligence David ... you better have something more specific then just "stuff" ...

YOUR comments are very pointed and ... dare I say it ... Spot on ... Very nicely put ... all of it ....

My only message in that post was not to counter anything you raised other than to observe the fact that David has set his sights on political solutions more than the crimes themselves, he's not a prosecutor after all. You and I know where this is leading if there's no follow-through on investigating 911 and a slew of other crimes, but right now it will be impossible to gain traction on the substance of our focus while the election is literally absorbing everyone's attention.

I fully intend to help aid and abet every avenue of 9/11 truth and not allow it to disappear into the Kennedy-Assassination Woodwork, not in this day and age of permanent recorded Public Evidence! If after this shift of leadership at the Executive Office, DoJ, DoD, CIA, FBI, NSA, EPA, FCC, FAA, FEMA and all the rest, we're still looking like oblivious idiots to the common man in the world and complicit in the Crimes of this recent administration I'll be seeking Just company where ever it exists. Until then, I'm going to fully appreciate everything David and many others have done to get a new leaf turned in our favor... God, I can't stand not exposing 9/11's Evidence! This one issue would have overturned the entire political landscape forever. NYC911BallotInitiative for '09 will do it!

ixoxi

Than he already is ....

For two years I've been saying that progressives should be helping and pushing 911truth as crux of all the other issues, that if we only elevated this issue into a "mainstream" dispute it would change all the other dynamics. David didn't cave, but I didn't get kicked off either like some other gate-keeper sites.

I'm embarrassed how long it took me to discover 911truth because as a child I studied the buildings themselves, and when I was asked in '02 by a wealthy friend if "I believed the buildings collapsed by impacts" I responded, "sure", but that was because I had false information about the building facades being composed of concrete... once I understood that they were aluminum-cladded steel and read other blueprint material there was no doubt. (my indoctrination to the buildings was the Chicago Tribune's serial articles comparing WTC towers/construction with the Sears Tower about the same time, and being quite young had not discerned the difference). When I finally did it was because I saw clearly the physics, which coupled with my knowledge of the Bush Crime Family... Oil Inc., or Oiligarchrchy... I didn't sleep for a week~!

Now, with a softer generation coming to power we must remain persistent and get this issue exposed for all time... the world depends on Americans to Self-Govern their own government, and that would be us, and include all who have a yearning to see the truth prevail. Transparent and All. You are helping.

But I gotta tell you.. You busted me up with the post about Ehren Watada...LMAO!

ixoxi

couldn't agree more, Stevendodd

Very well I hear ... Had a desk job "pushing paperclips into piles" for two years past his "term of duty" so that he could hear that the army in fact CAN"T try him twice for the same "crime" ... YET ....

You've been a ferocious advocate, "a Lion" of everything modern Americans should be standing for during this Constitutional Crisis created by the creeping fascism" of the past 50 years, apparent to everyone who has studied and continues to value what the Constitution represents to people of all origins. I joined the dialog on your site those years ago because of a google-search about "impeachment-news", and today you're #2 in that same search.

I was looking for people and organizations dedicated to unraveling the TRUTH about today's patently-fascist events unfolding before our eyes under the corrupted and patently fascist Bush administration, and you've never let me down and I've never neglected to visit and attend to this site's pursuit of "The Downing Street Memos" and its related causes. I first of all want you to know how much I value your personal contribution to the landscape that is "America" and for what we stand.

That said, I must tell you that it is only a matter of time before the True 9/11 Stands Up, as in, we researchers in pursuit of the truth about the most massive False Flag in modern history Intend to Expose 9/11 as an Inside Job, but not necessarily in the way most people think "inside". I also realize you have your plate full until we know for sure who is to be in charge of our once great nation, so I'm not about to burden you with the deeper realities some of us "prolific visitors" enjoy. The following is only to offer a glimmer of the real change we're all about to see transform our common ground after Obama gets elected.

If there's one thing the Downing Street Memos proved was the willingness on the part of the PNAC-Backed Bush administration to Kill Innocent People in pursuit of a pre-set Imperial Goal, using the Military Apparatus, Secret Services, Multinational corporations and Private Council to corrupt the Representative Process, ie, "Mis-Representative Process". Can you not see the devastation that has been wrought by megalomaniacs in this, OUR time? More importantly, is there anything beyond the scope of "reasonable" collateral damage that these same people were not willing to sacrifice, if not a million Iraqi's that Cheney said in 1993 would result from toppling Saddam Hussein, in pursuit of their Stated Goals of Homogenizing the world's oil and gas supplies, the greater Middle East, and Expanding the Reach of the US Dollar and US Military Tyranny? They wanted nothing less than Monopoly, but they and their Israeli co-signers needed a "New Pearl Harbor". Cliched and Tired though it may be, that is what THEY SAID AND SIGNED AT PNAC! EVIDENCE OF MOTIVATION!

"Now, I agree with you on the 9-11 stuff"

Yukihisa Fujita, the Democratic Party Leader of the Japanese Diet just gave his 3rd Speech to large and increasing applause in support of re-Investigating 9/11 on the basis that publicly available evidence all points in the direction of an "Inside Job" by the US, a call he's used forcefully in their "congress". Fransesca Cossiga, Former President of Italy, former director of "Operation Gladio", a European-wide False-Flag Terrorism Operation that set up Police State sympathies through Secret Service Planted Bombings and Killings of Innocent Civilians for the furtherance of an Expanded Police State there, in the '60's, '70's, and '80's, now again speaking to the whole public, "9/11 was executed by CIA and MOSSAD" to demonize Arabs and lend excuse for military invasion, the conquest of of trillions in oil and gas monopoly. You can argue with these and the impossible physics of 3 building collapses set-up as "gravity collapses caused by 2 planes and carbon fires", but you cannot recover "leadership" in pursuit of TRUTH once you've given it up... someone else will pick up the ball.

Bloggers have led the way for at least the past 6 years BECAUSE they don't owe patronage to large DoD contractors or ideological creeps, who squash basic science, public facts, or dismiss details. Though this time is especially pressing when we can all see a small opening for progressive issues with the impending election of Barack Obama, I ask, with the utmost gravity, that you review and revisit the Details of 9/11, its vulnerability to scrutiny, and its direct impact on the US Government, its Foreign Policy, and Justice of, by and for the People.

There's too much for you not to be concerned here regardless of Obama's Victory!

I have a great archive, and I am only a single American citizen, contact me any time, channing at mediamonitors.org

ixoxi

Dismissing 9/11 by accepting at face value the "official" version of what happened is folly.

Whether or not an Obama Administration will show a measure of receptiveness to the idea of a thorough investigation of the events leading up to the 9/11 tragedy is not the issue. What is the issue is that this nation has declined to such a criminal level at its highest governmental institutions that the rest of the world has every right to see us the way other imperial despotic nations have been viewed in history.

Mr. Swanson has provided a great service having developed this forum for intelligent discourse. Many of us have been brought together in spite of the vast miles which separate us. We literally communicate in seconds with each other. Our commonality of purposes in the main prevails.

That we may and do dissent with each other is indicative of the strength of our respective committments to real American Constitutional principles.

Our nation stands one chance to have any possibility to restore its once prominence on the world stage. That is to simply recommitt our entire existence to TRUTH!

Collectively, all Americans (not D's, R's, I's, G's or whatever else maybe) must view ourselves as just that AMERICANS! America needs the talents and ingenuities of all of its citizens to make this country great again. For right now this country is anything but great.

Right after 9/11 all the signs said UNITED WE STAND! We did for maybe a few months. Yet it was a false facade. I always like to resurrect that Latin phrase so aptly stated for a long time by another "prolific visitor" here, CUI BONO?

A total pursuit of the TRUTH may not benefit some elements of this populace who were able to take advantage of the circumstances personally. I firmly believe that such a pursiut of the TRUTH will benefit ALL AMERICANS and that is why this pursuit is worthwhile and necessary.

Very surprised this post did not draw him out, sincerely hope everything is ok on the homefront.

IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/FARA AIPAC...PNAC is Bush/Cheney's "Helter Skelter" !

UNITE IN SOLIDARITY > WE MUST DEFEAT MCCAIN!!!

I love his posts too and miss his input greatly... good to see you too

ixoxi

We are in for some heady times and new opportunities for optimistic discussions, I hope! peace, yankhadenuf

IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/FARA AIPAC...PNAC is Bush/Cheney's "Helter Skelter" !

UNITE IN SOLIDARITY > WE MUST DEFEAT MCCAIN!!!

How can the US ever pretend to lead the world without Truth? Wasn't that what separated us from the despots, communists, theologically and blood-royal based tyrannies of the past?

It has been my conviction for some long time that the US, "WE" owe the world an apology, but how is that possible with Americans-in-Denial about our deeds and in total darkness about huge swaths of our own government and our own enterprises?

As Kucinich offered, a "Truth and Reconciliation Committee" as an integral part of the Executive Branch/Cabinet would be a good start. Also the "Open Source Intelligence" movement getting off the ground would be another. Scientists for Transparency and Open Government another. The way to fuel these vital restorations of our Constitution rest with exposing, IMO, 9/11 because no other crime has touched so many areas of secrecy and criminal enterprise operating within "legitimate" US law as this crime. Think of the FAA, FBI, CIA, NSA, FEMA, DoJ, DoD, Executive Privilege, State Secrets, National Security, Wall Street getting the Public Scrutiny they need, then imagine a world, jaws dropped, that the American People Did It! They took the criminal elite on and Won Without a War!

...That's where I'm going with this after the election.

ixoxi

It's amazing how many cold hard facts have indeed been kept away from the American public at large! :

What motivated the 9/11 hijackers? See testimony most didn't

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=J1bm2GPoFfg

There are three main schools of thought:
1) Bush Admin had no part in thought, word, and/or deed
2) LIHOP (Bush Let It Happen On Purpose)
3) MIHOP (Bush Made It Happen On Purpose)

There is a 4th school of thought that is rarely brought up, except by moi (Miss Piggy sans lipstick):
4) PNAC provoked it to happen before Bush even got into office

And while representativepress and I agree with you that there is no basis in fact or evidence that George W Bush "pulled" the towers down, per se, there is much inference everywhere online from millions around the world that Cheney/Bush puppet and Cabal, et al, WISHED for something, anything catastrophic to happen right here on US soil. While it's true that merely WISHING bad things is not a crime, war conspiracy IS indeed a crime. There MUST be an investigation as to WHY Kristol/Cheney's PNAC was allowed to post online such provocative pinstriped terrorist activities by promoting massive violence of their own (can you imagine them getting away with pre-conceived war crime conspiracies if they wore white hoods/neo-nazi or black panther symbols, or even boy scout badges?) Do expensive business suits worn by white men in think tanks automatically "cleanse" any and all racketeering organizational activities/illegal "shadow lobbies" under the conspicuous veneer of "non-profit/charity laws"? .

And WHAT took Bush Admin so long to address clearly obvious warnings of OBL and Al Qaeda activities long before 9/11 happened, and WHY did Israeli spies on our soil (aka the movers ) appear so enthusiastically overjoyed that it DID happen in our America? And why were OTHER Israeli spies (aka "art students") that were planted around the proximity of potentially known terrorist cells within the United States, so silent? http://www.democracynow.org/2007/2/8/cheering_movers_and_art_student_spies

The 9/11 Investigation must be re-opened, and the MOTIVES of not only the terrorists themselves, but the criminal behavior of all the other "players" must be thoroughly investigated as well. If ever an "Un-American Activities Agency" should come about, it should not and would NOT be McCarthyistic in nature, because it should focus factually and "out" the true American terrorists and their CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES in our midst! Truly, we possess the tools NOW, since venues already exist in the form of federal/state RICO laws that are currently on the books.

We just need a special prosecutor able and willing to do the job. Mr. Bugliosi, can we talk?

IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/FARA AIPAC...PNAC is Bush/Cheney's "Helter Skelter" !

UNITE IN SOLIDARITY > WE MUST DEFEAT MCCAIN!!!

wasn't it Bugliosi who white-washed the Kennedy Assassination by ignoring a great deal of evidence? I'm not an avid JFK researcher, but that is what I've heard...

ixoxi

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/14/books/14jfk.html

So his work on that would probably be critiqued as a writer, more than a lawyer? I don't know enough about this work of his to have an opinion either way. I only know Bugliosi had no actual involvement in the Warren Commission Report (the official investigation of JFK Assassination).

http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/

I just mainly know his work as a former prosecutor, an impeccable record of never losing a murder case. Please forgive if you already remember this, but the Manson Family Murders shocked the entire nation (probably the world too, since it involved Hollywood). The fact that Bugliosi convicted Charles Manson of the entire conspiracy portion (not the murders themselves, which were committed by his "Family Members"), and actually developed a coherent case out of a bunch of drug addicts , was rather amazing , even at the time. People were simply fascinated that Charles Manson had this huge "helter skelter" plot that Bugliosi somehow unravelled and made sense of (even for the public at large, not just the jury), and managed to hold Manson responsible for brainwashing his foundlings.

IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/FARA AIPAC...PNAC is Bush/Cheney's "Helter Skelter" !

UNITE IN SOLIDARITY > WE MUST DEFEAT MCCAIN!!!

Amazing coming from Dave Lindorff!

First, most conspiracy theories floating around the world are not "leftist" by any stretch of the imagination.

Second, "conspiracies' have been the Modus aperandi of tyrants, 20th century corporations, the black-market mob, and most governments in history, in fact the only Crimes that are NOT conspiracies are those "lone-gunmen", but that's another conspiracy isn't it. To lump them all together is brashly-naive. Anyone who has joined his upper-crust friends in the back-room or country club knows that Super Rich, Super Connected people conspire for a living!

Third, "Not all conspiracy theories are created equal"... use a little discernment Dave. Lumping them together as if they're all created by Treckies-in-Mom's-Basement slanders independent research and furthers the lack of scrutiny our government and unrestrained corporateers have earned.

I happen to agree with you that Obama IS going to get in without a major disruption, but is that because the world is all of a sudden free of conspiracies, or is it because the attempts at disruption that would have worked, and were tried, failed already?

I must counter a couple of your lame dismissals:

"self-destructive conspiracy-theory paranoia that has gripped much of the Left"

Beg to differ, but it was "conspiracy theories" that got EVM's under scientific scrutiny, that got Blackwell in Ohio Terminated, that Proved the Florida election was Stolen, that got JFK Jr. and this site and BradBlog (a bunch of lefty-paranoids I'm sure) into the forefront of Election Fraud, that got Congressional Investigations into the Politicizing of the DoJ going, that got MSM photos published of Abu Graib, ad Nauseum... What destruction are you talking about? Where is your perspective here?

"Chief among the leftist conspiracy theories are that the Bush/Cheney administration was behind the 9-11 attacks"

Independent 9/11 Investigations are not fueled by anything like a false left-right dichotomy or conspiracy theory, you apparently really are not aware of the composition either of the leading members or the lay-researchers around the world who compose the "9/11 Truth Movement", the evidence involved or the international movement propelling its exposure. The general consensus is that Bush/Cheney were in fact "in the know", not behind it, with Cheney actively Standing-Down NORAD, which HAD TO HAPPEN by Executive Order for 4 or more flights to get through the most heavily defended airspace in the world. This stand down started with an Executive Order earlier in the year signed by Bush to usurp the Intercept Protocol for the first time in 50 years. Where it had been "automatic" prior to Bush, it was suddenly Assigned to Rumsfeld's Pre-Approval who of course happened to be "nowhere in sight" that morning.

There's way too much Real World Evidence for you or any Constitution Loving American to ignore, but leave it to the "lefty-paranoids" to do the work for you. When it does hit US mainstream as it's doing in Japan this weekend, I'll think of you first, 'K?

"that there are plans for a “false flag” attack on American forces which will be used to justify an all-out war against Iran"

You've missed a boat-load on this item including Russia's Preemptive Press Release that forced the Iran NIE into the Public... Prying it out of Cheney's Cold, whatever, Hands... and the "missing nukes" had nothing to do with it either, "Ten Thousand Criminal Coincidences Add Up To What" in your world?

"the Wall Street meltdown and subsequent bail-out are a deliberate scheme to steal the nation’s assets"

Are you oblivious to the Constitutional Founders' written dissertations on US Currency and Central Banking, that one of the primary motives for the Boston Tea Party was shaking off Britain's economic stranglehold? I can forgive you not being up to speed on Rothschild-Rockefeller meddling over the past couple hundred years, but you should at least read Constitutional texts about it. And, BTW, it's just "paranoid thinking" that Paulson bailed out the same corporation he headed up before becoming Treasury Secretary.

"Conspiracy thinking produces a deep cynicism towards positive action and towards the kind of long-term organizing upon which real social and political change"

Is that why you can read my entries all over the web advocating Solar Deserts for the past 5 years? Why I've advocated that Government Transparency and Representative Government are Inseparable? Is my "self-destructive paranoia" behind my "Tourists For Terrorists" motto that I invented and advocated BEFORE INVADING AFGHANISTAN? Need I go on defending Independent Public Scrutiny?

Yes, I take it personally, but also on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of "fringe" researchers in our society who've sacrificed personal fame, fortune and career to advance American culture and Insight and exposing High Crimes in the process. Those of us who've traveled the world and weren't born yesterday, and have every intention of bringing the Shadowiest Criminals to Justice will not rest until some of the most important crimes are brought to the light of day, and you should be grateful.

Your post is almost word for word what John McCain wrote in the Introduction to Hurst Corp's Popular Mechanics' Hit-Piece on 9/11 Research, a slanderous piece full of lies and misinformation that can be proven in a court of law before a Jury of Peers, and you should be ashamed that you think many of us working this Mass-Murder into the Public Domain would-be "progressive" without researched-knowledge of big-boys, big-clubs, big-corps and big-secret government programs and cover-ups. Our government has had every opportunity to release all its confiscated and hidden evidence and clear almost everything up forever... WHY HAVEN'T THEY DONE IT?

You show me the light of day in these subjects and I'll retract every word, until then allow us non-pacifists continue the hard and sacrificial work of bringing heat to the rich and the powerful and most criminally-insane among us.

ixoxi

Why does this not sound like anything I have read by Dave Lindorff?

I think he should review all the footage of 9/11..
Then count how many reporters said bomb,explosive,,etc..

Then ask the FBI who has the technology to separte the sounds...
I think they'll even be able to distinguish what type of explosives they are...

I'm sure the MSM's will provide there audio's of 9/11,,
I wonder if the big networks or hollywood would be able to separte the sounds...
I'm sure NASA can...

So I ask again,,why doesn't this article sound like Dave Lindorff?

and how many times BBC prematurely said tower 7 had collapsed

and once by CBS as well.

But a curious thing is that the OEM was told, and they reported that they were told, by an "expert" that Building 7 would come down as well at 12:00 that afternoon.

Of course, no building of it's kind had ever collapsed due to office fires before, so what was this based on? Who told them? A demolition expert told them, who just HAPPENED to be there.

And CDI of course was in charge of the clean-up of the site right after the buildings fell down.

So many strange things....

who made him an offer he couldn't refuse: put his name on this article and spread it around or people he loves get hurt.

And...he loves his adorable blond grand-daughter more than he loves his country.

So he made his choice...a choice which many have made before him...
and here is the result.

What with a multi-trillion dollar transfer of wealth to the banksters, people are waking up. And we can't have that -- hence, Operation Mockingbird found new talent to do their bidding.

And that is how we are being sold out, one adorable grand-daughter at a time.

Dave Lindroff seems to be counting his chickens before they are hatched here.

Number one, Obama has not yet won the Election yet, and whether or not he does on Tuesday, he might not necessarily be declared the winner. After all, if the truth be told, Al Gore won Florida in 2000, and John Kerry won Ohio (and probably New Mexico and Florida) in 2004. Yet both were denied as was the intent and the will of thousands and thousands of disenfranchised voters.

The reality here is that in 2008 early voting, there has already been multiple reports about ES&S iVotronics touch screen systems flipping votes away from Obama and assigned to either John McCain or one of the third party candidates. And no, this is not a mere calibration problem, when Cynthia McKinney's name is chosen as is located 5 squares away from Obama. The software is, in fact, hijacking the intented user's vote selection. These touch screen problems have already been reported in West Virginia, Tennessee, Missouri, Texas, and Indiana. This is not a "one machine" problem. It is not a one State problem. And it is not a one Election problem. The problem is real, and it is just what it looks like it is: deliberate corruption.

Even if Obama does have enough of a lead over the bumbling McCain to prevail through the current voting jungle of malfunctions, disenfranchisement, and other criminal activity, that does not mean that our Election processes are either fair or transparent or trustworthy.

If we have to be ahead by a landslide in order to win, that ain't the way any democracy on earth is conducted. Al Gore was the rightful winner in 2000. John Kerry was the rightful winner in 2004. If the conditions that existed today had also existed in years past, then Jimmy Carter would have never "won" over the bumbling Gerald Ford in 1976. John Kennedy would have never "won" over the oily Richard Nixon in 1960 -- and the Cuban Missile Crisis would have been handled in a much more hawkish way and a Hot War involving Nuclear weapons may have occurred.

In short, none of us might even be alive today.

So regardless of whether Obama makes it through this plainly corrupt system, the problems are indeed real and they must be identified, confronted, admitted, and protested.

Loudly.

... covering his bases either way. Trying to make sure he is on the right side of the Homegrown Terrorist Act.

Some people are willing to adjust the framework that their minds operate in, others are not, lindy sounds like the latter.

It took me years to start to allow myself to entertain the wacko theories. There is a lot of S**t and a lot of obvious facts that don't fit the official story (whichever version they are pushing today) and they are pretty easy to see if they are based in the real world or not, so it is poor form to dismiss them en masse.

as an professional analyst (not even a fact parsing attorney) it is obvious that the Government is covering up information, have obviously contradicted themselves on numerous occassions and cooked their version of 9/11 to fit a pre-prescribed conclusion.

This doesn't necessarily mean they did it, but they sure as hell knew it was going to happen as just about every other foreign intel told us before it happened.

So, why did they let it transpire lindy? fill in your own conspiracy theory here. Until you are willing to do that, get out of the way of all those who have put their careers on the line to try and get the full, truthful answers - which at the very least will help us make this country safer.

fried in fresno

Respectfully Mr. Lindorff I have appreciated much of what you have written and the clarity of thought you give your
subject...however...this time I must disagree in the strongest sense of the word possible. And I hope you will
respect the thoughtful replies in the above comments of others as well as mine and
realize that perhaps you are not only factually incorrect
but your purpose seems hollow and empty with only two
results that could come from it. First, the thoughtful people you refer to are upset and second you may perhaps "unwittingly"have given comfort to those less critical thinkers who actually need reasons to think more, not excuses to sweep it all back under some rug. I will quote you and make a few brief comments since the others have already done an excellent job. Since I do respect
you I hope you will appreciate that I hope we don't lose
your thinking and clarity to some lesser purpose and that
we all need to get to the the "truth" even if it is horrible. You said..

"What I am saying is that the grander conspiracies being concocted in the more fevered brains of some people on the Left do not hold up under careful and critical inspection. The biggest failings they share are two: first of all, conspiracies as grand as multi-state election thefts via electronic fraud, and the carrying out of a two-front, high-casualty mass terrorist act on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, require the cooperation of such large numbers of people that leaks, turncoats, informants and simple screw-ups are inevitable;"

I suppose it would not take more than the 19 people the government claims did the 9/11 job? 13 if you believe the
BBC reports that 6 of them are still alive? What does
Silverstein mean when he says of the bldg 7 collapse
"....we decided to pull it" ?

With regard to election fraud...why must we entertain your
premise of "multi-state" election fraud?
All that was required in 2000 was 5 of 9 Supreme Court
justices and one corrupt Gov and one Kathleen Harris.
Florida was one by Gore. That is not indispute by any
source that I am aware of. See Greg Palast.

You continue..

"and secondly, this administration in particular has shown itself to be phenomenally inept, intellectually stunted, and tactically clueless. The War in Iraq, which was supposed to be a “cakewalk,” has been an unmitigated disaster for Republicans. The War in Afghanistan is a fiasco."

This is true only if you accept the premise that what they
say in public, i.e., “cakewalk” is true.
our rights have been seriously diminished and there has
been torture and an illegal occupation of two countries.

A different perspective is that Haliburton among many
others is making a fortune.
A pretty good day at work for a group that you claim is

"phenomenally inept, intellectually stunted, and tactically clueless"

Not it seems when doing what they want to do...they seem
extremely good at it or am I imagining this?

You continue...

"The War on Terror, while a success in terms of helping Republicans win seats in Congress in 2002, and Bush to win re-election in 2004, has been a bust longer term. Management of the US economy has been a model of incompetence. So has the grand plan to crush Democrats and create a dominant Republican Party for the next century. The Rovian campaign strategy of lies, smears and dirty tricks, while initially successful, appears to have worn out its effectiveness in just three two-year national election cycles."

What is "The War on Terror". Since you used this term
I would love an explanation. As I beleive Gore Vidal
has said...it is nonsense. The term itself is nonsense.
I suppose you mean the imagined conspiracy of thousands
of muslims all over the world who are trying to destroy
our freedom (before our own government does) and therefore
we must kill them in Iraq or they will follow our troops
home and kill us here in the "Homeland"? That "War on Terror"?

Anyway...you seem to be saying that it worked to keep them
in power up to a point and that it may not be working now.

Was that to bolster your idea that they are not equiped
to do horrible things and get away with it?

They have indeed done so.

You sum it up with....

"Maybe when this election goes right and isn’t stolen, making Obama the president, and debunking the vote-theft fear-mongers, and when Obama goes on to be inaugurated in January, without being blocked by a military coup, these paranoid conspiracy theories will fade away and people on the Left will start working to make change happen instead of imagining reasons why it can’t or just moaning that “they” are going to destroy us all."

Mr. Lindorff...every family in Iraq would be correct
to fear that if they have not been destroyed yet
that they may be by "they" as you put it.
Which is our shadow government (See Bill Moyers)
It is not a leap of "fevered leftist minds"
to think that "they" would do with us as they wish.

Evidenced by your rights being stripped...you money
being stolen...your fellow brothers and sisters being
sent off to kill and be killed for profit.

What are you missing?

Now...as to your point (which could have been made
without your loose thinking regarding "grander conspiracies being concocted in the more fevered brains of some people on the Left"...which really should be your least concern...
use the word speculation if you are uncomfortable with
"conspiracy" and please don't use it as a polemic, speculation would not be needed if we had truth and transparacy.)

Sorry...your point...

"paranoid conspiracy theories will fade away and people on the Left will start working to make change happen instead of imagining reasons why it can’t or just moaning that “they” are going to destroy us all."

Are you saying that you have evidence that people who
entertain "paranoid conspiracy theories" are not or
can not also work for change?

Our slogan...American Independent Paranoid And Conspiracy (AIPAC)Theorists for Change!!!

Are you just saying we need to work for change?
Can't we do both? Please Mr. Lindorff...if you drop
the flattery.."fevered brains"..etc.,

One last thing I can't help...you said

"...relatively simple conspiracies actually prove my point—both have been clearly exposed thanks to leaks, turncoats, and good investigative reporting."

So no one ever gets away with anything? This proves your
point? It might be a premise but it proves nothing.

Perhaps you are becoming paranoid that those who have
there own "think tanks" in there head will not also
work for change....however a theory like that would
require millions of people and some good reporter would
have already uncovered this plot to stay home and do nothing...oh...that's called watching CNN....sorry...

(By the way....I was telling the "reporters in the newsroom
before the war in Iraq...it was a set-up...and listen to
Scott Ritter...the rest is (not history as in past tense...)
still going on!!!

I take back everything here....I think someone might
be reading this....got to go see Deep Throat!

IMPEACH REMOVE INDICT ARREST

There are so many gems in your comment here I can hardly get in a word... I do want to say that I feel comforted knowing other thinkers exist in our contemporary framework, that others are taking account and reckoning the truth of the matters at hand, and that I am not alone in demanding to know how our Constitutional government and its servants could possibly remain so out of sight, out of mind, outside the jurisdiction of the commonwealth!

Below I'm pasting some of my favorite phrases from your post:

-I hope we don't lose
your thinking and clarity to some lesser purpose and that
we all need to get to the the "truth" even if it is horrible.""

-I suppose it would not take more than the 19 people the government claims did the 9/11 job? 13 if you believe the
BBC reports that 6 of them are still alive?""

-All that was required in 2000 was 5 of 9 Supreme Court
justices and one corrupt Gov and one Kathleen Harris.""

-our rights have been seriously diminished and there has been torture and an illegal occupation of two countries.""

-A pretty good day at work for a group that you claim is "phenomenally inept, intellectually stunted, and tactically clueless"""

-...I imagining this?""

-As I beleive Gore Vidal
has said...it is nonsense. The term itself is nonsense.""

-thousands of muslims all over the world who are trying to destroy our freedom (before our own government does) and therefore we must kill them in Iraq or they will follow our troops home and kill us here in the "Homeland"""

-Was that to bolster your idea that they are not equiped
to do horrible things and get away with it?""

-every family in Iraq would be correct
to fear that if they have not been destroyed yet
that they may be""

-It is not a leap of "fevered leftist minds"
to think that "they" would do with us as they wish.""

-What are you missing?""

-speculation would not be needed if we had truth and transparacy""

-people who entertain "paranoid conspiracy theories" are not or can not also work for change?""

-Our slogan...American Independent Paranoid And Conspiracy (AIPAC)Theorists for Change!!!""-+GREAT!!!

-no one ever gets away with anything? This proves your point? It might be a premise but it proves nothing.""

-Perhaps you are becoming paranoid that those who have there own "think tanks" in there head will not also work for change""

-some good reporter would
have already uncovered this plot to stay home and do nothing""

-I take back everything here....I think someone might
be reading this....got to go see Deep Throat!""

...and I'm thinking someone put something in America's drink today!

ixoxi

had a private talk with Dave Lindorff.

If Lindorff believes this; "Leftists and 9/11 truth seekers are delusional" tack he is taking, then someone got to him.

right now, the right wing truly fears this 9/11 truth getting out to everyone, it is the CRUX OF THE ARGUMENT that began all of this power grabbing, illegal war mongering, and torture all to enrich the Military Industrial Complex and 'hide' the Dov Zackheim and Donald Rumsfeld 2.3 Trillion dollar "ship the money to Israel" thing going on that ultimately forced their neocon hands to execute Operation Northwoods II, on the United States.

Lindorff is totally co-opted and, in my professional opinion, now reduced to marginal and not credible status as a writer.

he's sold out. for whatever reason. but no longer credible, for sure!!!

IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/FARA AIPAC...PNAC is Bush/Cheney's "Helter Skelter" !

UNITE IN SOLIDARITY > WE MUST DEFEAT MCCAIN!!!

Dave, Dave, Dave, please, it is no more "anti-Semetic" to want AIPAC RICO'd, FARA'd, banned, whatever, than it is to be "anti-Italian" to want the Mafia prosecuted and its assets confiscated. If there is any legendary false "conspiracy" that has a plethora of dis-info agents, it is the "Anti-Semetic on Every Blog" one. Good grief, these prolific agent provocateurs ( via megaphone software ) congregate in the open and proudly proclaim how they disrupt every "Israel discussion"! :

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article693911.ece

AIPAC is clearly in violation of FARA, the Foreign Agent Registration Act. Surely you jest. We are over it. The crying wolf days of Israeli govt and their backers smarmily claiming "foul play" ARE OVER (so over in fact, that it's old hat, beating a dead horse, and any other adage that will suffice here). The roots of these instigations are against Iraq, potentially Iran, and now it looks like Syria too, by abusing American soldiers as Israel's pawns in THEIR chess game. The real conspiracy has always been in plain sight, and now the muzzles are off.

There IS a conspiracy , Dave , it started in an Israeli think tank IASPS, and it is all online:

http://zfacts.com/p/139.html

http://zfacts.com/p/140.html

Like it or not, Neoconism was born in Israel's Likud Party and carries its banner in America through the criminal organization , AIPAC, who also, by the way, spied on the USA. PNAC is Neoconism's unofficial and racketeering "shadow lobby" for the Military Industrial Complex. In tandem, AIPAC and PNAC have wreaked havoc upon Iraq, and wish to continue to do so on the rest of the Middle East, much the same as Hitler and Naziism did to Europe. I suppose you don't question THAT conspiracy, do you?

IMPEACH BUSHCO & RICO PNAC/FARA AIPAC...PNAC is Bush/Cheney's "Helter Skelter" !

UNITE IN SOLIDARITY > WE MUST DEFEAT MCCAIN!!!

Very interesting, indeed.

I have to agree with Mr. Perry and the other 100% of the commenters here today, you seem to be talking out of your ___.

Your conclusion that 9/11 couldn't have been an inside job is based on your ASSUMPTION of how many people it would take to pull off a conspiracy like this. And that number is based on how many hours of research?

Then you say that this administration is to enept to pull off something like this.

Let me give you a clue, just in case you haven't been paying attention Mr. Lindorff:

1. massive scale illegal wiretapping when Nixon got removed from office for tapping one office.
2. Illegal torture and many violations of the Geneva conventions
3. 35 articles of impeachment sitting collecting dust in a DEMOCRATICLY CONTROLED HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
4. off shore drilling
5. deregulation in epic scale across the board
6. various examples of the EPA being instructed to lie in order to undermine the protections established over 20 years
7. 935 lies, recorded and cataloged, to take us into an ILLEGAL WAR
8. at least 100k dead civilians from that war
9. 4,100+ dead US soldiers in a war based on LIES
10. Bush entered the White House and the first thing he told his NSA meeting is that he wanted to go to war with Iraq and to find a way, mission accomplished.
11. cronyism on a biblical scale.
12. Bush is an oil man with family ties to oil, what was the price of oil in 2000 and what is it now? mission accomplished.
13. Multiple attacks on the constitution, even rewrote the definition of the office of Vice President.
14. Multiple violation of election laws in 2000 and 2004, and yet they are still in office.

should I go on?

Only a fool would suggest that this has been an incompetent administration; either that or someone who thinks we readers are fools.

Lastly, you suggest this based on their performance in Iraq. Let me tell you about Iraq. Had Iraq's Army remained in place, there would not have been the chaos that insued and they would not have needed the multibillion dollar private security forces. You see, it was that chaos that allowed BushCo to fill the vacuum with multiple private contracters on our dime.

So, you see, these are your arguments, and they pale in comparison to the scientific data, eye-witness testimony, and physics that people like myself have spent YEARS studying.

Yes I agree with Mr. Perry; I am disappointed in you for writing something like this. I have to wonder why you choose to use the term "Leftist" as well.

Maybe you are a little more concerned about Mr. Lieberman's Homegrown Terrorist Bill than you let on, huh?

You see, not only does it take work (many years of research) to come to an educated opinion about this topic, but it also takes courage to speak out about it. Because there is always going to be someone who is dismissive and insulting to you about it without having the least bit of information on the subject.

So Mr. Lindorff, I hope you have enjoyed the many comments left here for you.

I would like to think that they have given you some food for thought, but something tells me that will not be the case.

BRAVO DAVE!

It takes guts to stand up to the Infowars and We are Change idiots, thank you for making a bold statement and exposing just how weak and counter productive they truly are to true radical movements.

You sir, are a star.

Finally REAL radicals have the opportunity to get their message across and REALLY work towards REAL change, not the corporate "alternative" media that Infowars, Rense and We Are Change are cashing in on.

Sites like:

www.afterdowningstreet.org
www.thiscantbehappening.net
www.rinf.com
www.indymedia.org

Are the new frontier of REAL journalism without motive to sell books and DVDs.

Well done for speaking the truth Dave.

"It takes guts to stand up to the Infowars and We are Change idiots..."

It takes "guts" to poke fun at sites and groups who are the subject of scorn already by 90% of our Fascist-American culture? You mean, hiding behind my self-chosen anonymity I can throw stones at groups speaking truth directly to power on the ground and claim "mission accomplished" for being the only defender of Lindorf's 9/11 research attack". Isn't that what you meant? btw, the word "idiot" is a give-away of the anti-9/11truth trolls out dedicated to smearing the movement without ever dirtying their hands with facts, evidence or logical counter arguments.

...thank you for making a bold statement and exposing just how weak and counter productive they truly are to true radical movements."

Our movement and movements throughout history that really "change" the world fundamentally, the non-Armchair "radicals", are neither weak nor counter productive, and using the word "true" to describe a lie doesn't legitimize your anonymity, your guts or your radicality.

"Finally REAL radicals have the opportunity to get their message across and REALLY work towards REAL change, not the corporate "alternative" media that Infowars, Rense and We Are Change are cashing in on."

So let's see... The anti-corporate media is really "corporate ""alternative"" media"... a nice double-twist-spin sort of rovian-mossad thingy you got there... As we like to say,

You're really a Laugh... You're really a Laugh but You're really a Cry!"

Go sell your Ignorant, Anonymous Armchair Radical plan back to PNAC-Likud... you deserve your money back!

(Note: Thanks to that "Corporatist Alternative Media" band Pink Floyd who helped tear down the Berlin Wall for the lyric in their song "Pigs")

ixoxi

and he is not meeting with much success there either.

You should check it out.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/The-End-is-at-Hand-to-Lef-by-Dave-Lindo...

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