You are hereForums / ADS Forums / Ending Occupation Discussion / SHARING JERUSALEM. WHY NOT? UPDATED


I am an Atheist but truly respect other people's believes and never try convincing others to switch to mine.

I heard someone saying here, that ARAFAT never wanted to sign a deal when Clinton hosted CAMP DAVID talks. That's INCORRECT he really wanted to sign A DEAL but he also wanted a FAIR DEAL and the deal offered by the Israelis DID NOT INCLUDED important JERUSALEN places for BOTH religions.
I also know there are EXTREMISTS in both sides of the isle but considering that MOST OF BOTH people want peace, I ask:


I also recommend the First Part of this Documentary by the AMERICAN TASK FORCE for understanding this conflict.

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What's your thinking on this issue?

Would you be willing to share Jerusalem with Palestinians the same way it was for many years in recent history?

but think question worthy, but not to who it is addressed to (no offense to Matty or MikeS). Again, I recommend starting your own websites with hattips or whatever from here.

This is not (imho) getting us closer to impeachment hearings!

Did you call Conyers' office today? Plan an action at your congressperson's office while they are home? Sort of feel torn right now about making this post, time spent elsewhere might be more effective.

No offense taken, RainMadeline, and please feel free to post here as much as you like. It's become a guilty pleasure for me.


As far as diverting attention from impeachment, I'm of the opinion, expressed elsewhere more than once but let me repeat it gently, that you're clinging to a fading fantasy - Nancy is not going to let Conyers do any more than have the little show that happened a few weeks ago.

I know only too well - sometimes you just lose on an issue or an election and hard as it is to let it go, it's over.

Now of course, people here will deny it - that's what the four stages are all about - but reality will set in at some point - for some on January 20, 2009 - and then the attention will turn to 'arrest him and take him to The Hague!'

I suppose that fantasy can go on for a couple of years, also.

But then I'm just an old realist - I don't like bursting balloons so people should do what makes them feel good, empowered, significant.

As I've previously stated, the mission of ADS is impeachment and peace. Since you are unwilling to take any tangible action toward that end, and consider it a "fading fantasy," you are clearly out of step with our mission here. Your assertion about Pelosi and Conyers is, as you say, just your opinion. You might be right, you might be wrong, but you have made it clear that you do not ascribe to our mission and objective.

ADS members come from a variety of political perspectives, pretty much the entire political continuum, from far right through far left. Through discussion, we sometimes find that our viewpoints on various subjects are not so different from each other, that at times we are indeed, "strange bedfellows."

Our masthead reads: "After Downing Street is a nonpartisan coalition working to expose the lies that launched the occupation of Iraq (and the one that keeps it going) and to hold accountable its architects." We will not allow you to trivialize our mission and our objective.

We believe in our mission of holding this administration accountable for its actions though the use of our American Constitutional process of impeachment. We do not consider it a fantasy, much less a "fading fantasy."

We believe it is not only possible, but an absolute necessity to reaffirm the rule of law over the rule of men. We believe it is our American duty, our civic and patriotic solemn responsibility, to defend our nation against "all enemies, foreign and domestic." Many of us have served in the military, and many of us continue to bear arms.

This is a community of activists, and is not intended as a website devoted to endless, mind-numbing quibbling over "my g-d is better than your/their god/Allah/God/Jehovah/etc./or none of the aforementioned." There are other sites, such as Jews Not Zionists for those looking to explore the subject.

Contemporary history shows that the subject of Israeli-Palestinian relations, and its adjunct, Judiasm/Zionism, is of great interest, complexity, and controversy. Of course there are those on all sides who become absorbed, even fanatical about it, and they are, like any good fanatic always ready for an argument.

That said, its in-depth discussion is not the mission and objective of ADS. We will not allow you to trivialize ADS' stated mission and objective, or our members' adherence to it.

As I've said before, your site, your rules.

I won't post re impeachment, not another word.

But am I the only one not allowed to respond to threads that have nothing to do with 'that subject', such as *your* Susan Morrison thread that led to thousands of words by those hostile (to say the least) toward Israel (and toward me personally - I mean the threats you have let stand) and a relatively few by me and a couple of others in defense?

How about threads that are at this very minute advocating a violent overthrow of the government via military coup? Am I allowed to tell those folks that such is not the way to go, that there is the constitutional process called...

Ooops, I guess I can't take that any further, so I'll stay out of those discussions too.

Just seeking a bit of clarity, I guess, to avoid deletion and/or banning.

Why are you here?

People welcome intelligent debates and the sharing of knowledge or at least, some kind of substance. You share nothing but superficial jesting.

There are plenty of right wing republican blogs with people on your wavelength who think that Bush is a honorable man, who can do no wrong because all the "terrorists" in the world must be invaded and killed with "nookyalar" weapons to prevent them from coming to sunny, Oakland California.

All civilian deaths are mere "collateral damage" because they were not Israelis. Dick Cheney is a brave war hero because anything outside of Fox News is a "conspiracy theory", as long as it doesn't spoil the sunny weather in Oakland, california.

Israel is America's most benevolent ally because Israel is holy and anyone who does not worship Israelis is a "anti- Semitic" terrorist with "weapons of mass destruction" who might threaten the sunny weather in Oakland, California.

There is no Federal Reserve conspiracy because tax cuts for Exxon makes good economics for sunny, Oakland California.

Your pretentous trolling does not accomplish anything outside of making yourself look ridiculous in pursuit of self gratification.

That's all I have to say to you.


I've been searching the web but nothing new about CONYERS.

I just wanted to make clear my view on this topic:

Either BOTH SIDES in this conflict agree to live together IN PEACE or BOTH should face the consequences.

What a waist of blood.....and why?
For something written Thousand years ago......

Long live KUCINICH!!!!!!!

>Either BOTH SIDES in this conflict agree to live together IN PEACE or BOTH should face the consequences.

By jove, jlennon, I think you're on to a primal truth.

Unfortunately, what we have is one side amenable to peace and the other side unwilling to even recognize the right to exist of their adversary. Hint - the recalcitrant party goes by the name of 'Hamas' or as I like to call them, pardon my French - HamAss.

>For something written Thousand years ago......

And what would that be?

Absolutely not - no more than I'd share Washington DC with the Canadians or Mexicans.

But it's a good question, jlennon.

Jerusalem is the capitol of Israel, period. And let's be clear - the Palestinians have no desire to share *any* of Israel with Jews, they are determined to drive them into the sea, relocate them to Europe (as the lunatic leader of Iran says), outbreed them or kill them (preferred method it seems).

Look at their school books and maps - you won't see Israel at all, only 'Palestine from river to sea'.

And I believe I'm the one who stated that Arafat never wanted (or more accurately, dared) to sign a peace accord in 1999. He could have had 90 some percent of what he wanted with the rest subject to further negotiation.

From wiki (so take it for what it's worth):

"The failure to come to an agreement was widely attributed to Yasser Arafat, as he walked away from the table without making a concrete counter-offer and because Arafat did little to quell the series of Palestinian riots that began shortly after the summit. Arafat was also accused of scuttling the talks by Nabil Amr, a former minister in the Palestinian Authority."

You don't appease people who are trying to kill you - they'll only be back for more. Lesson one courtesy of Neville Chamberlain.

Didn't you shared the city of Jerusalem side by side before that war for hundreds of years?
I am not supporting neither Muslims nor Jews side.
I have friends of both sides here in america.

But the palestinians also have their right for sharing the holly city in peace, like it or not to the extremists of BOTH SIDES.

I think that ZIONISTS are violating UN resolutions by not returning to their ORIGINAL AND RECOGNIZED BORDERS.

See what the PRINCE of peace Jimmy Carter think about it?

Do you consider Carter an ANTI-SEMETIC person?

>Didn't you shared...

'You' who? I'm not Israeli or Jewish.

Here's a universal, though harsh, truth - if you go to war against someone and lose, the winner takes the spoils, ie your land. That's actually an advance in human affairs - in the really old days, the winner took your land, your women, your cows and anything else they could get their hands on.

Jordan attacked Israel got their a**** handed to them and lost East Jerusalem. Case closed.

The Palestinians, being in reality Jordanians held in pathetic bondage by their fellow Muslims (in refugee camps), have no right to any of Jerusalem, they have no 'right to return' to Israel and the sooner they understand and accept that reality the sooner they can have their nation and start living in peace with the Jewish State.

Of course, they show absolutely no comprehension of their situation - dreaming of driving the Jews into the sea some day qualifies as a mental disorder.

As for UN Resolutions - please don't make me laugh. Countries accept them when they're in their interest and ignore them when not. But if you are citing specifically Resolution 242 (fr wiki):
"Arthur Goldberg, another of the resolution's drafters, concurred that Resolution 242 does not dictate the extent of the withdrawal, and added that this matter should be negotiated between the parties:

Does Resolution 242 as unanimously adopted by the UN Security Council require the withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from all of the territories occupied by Israel during the 1967 war? The answer is no. In the resolution, the words the and all are omitted. Resolution 242 calls for the withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the 1967 conflict, without specifying the extent of the withdrawal. The resolution, therefore, neither commands nor prohibits total withdrawal.

If the resolution is ambiguous, and purposely so, on this crucial issue, how is the withdrawal issue to be settled? By direct negotiations between the concerned parties. Resolution 242 calls for agreement between them to achieve a peaceful and accepted settlement. Agreement and acceptance necessarily require negotiations."

Of course, the other side never admits to this - they interpret with breathtaking mendacity that 242 requires Israel to unilaterally withdraw.

Finally - "Do you consider Carter an ANTI-SEMETIC person?"

Yes, and I'm sorry I voted for that sorry excuse of a President in 1976.


In UK: The Free Gaza Movement: +447818040982
Palestinian Solidarity Campaign: +442077006313
On Board Ship: Paul Larudee: +306 981 234829
Osama Qashoo: +44 7833381660
In Cyprus: Ramzi Kysia: Greta Berlin +357-990 81767
Angela Godfrey-Goldstein: +972 547 366 393

Wednesday, August 20, 2008

At 8:30 am Cyprus time, the Free Gaza and the Liberty rounded the last corner
of this lovely island, escorted by the Cypriot Coast Guard, and pulled into on
the Northern side of the commercial port in Larnaca.

“We’ve been waiting a long time to unify our group, which has been split
between Cyprus and Crete. We are excited to combine both groups who have worked
so hard on this project and are so enthusiastic about setting out for Gaza. On
the way in today, we had the Cypriot authorities escorting us. Now, it’s time
for the world to escort us to Gaza.” Said Paul Larudee, one of the

After a thorough inspection of both boats, the port authority will let the 20
passengers from Cyprus on board to make final preparations, including a
memorial service for the more than 5000 Palestinians who have lost their lives
since September 2000 as well as the 34 sailors aboard the USS Liberty who were
assassinated by Israel in 1967. They, like the Palestinians, will not be
forgotten. That service should be on Thursday, August 21 just before the boats
begin their final journey to Gaza.

“It was exhilarating to watch the boats come in after waiting so patiently
over the past two weeks. Seeing the sail on the Free Gaza followed to port by
the Liberty has been worth the wait. Now we will get the boats ready to sail to
Gaza, because that is our final destination. We are looking forward to going as
soon as possible. ” Said a delighted Fathi Jaouadi, one of the passengers on

The boats will be in port for the next two days for media to photograph. The
human rights workers on board will also be available for interviews.


You can WATCH this two videos and you will find at least 10 INCORRECT STATEMENTS OF MIKES on this subject:

I also recommend the First Part of this Documentary by the AMERICAN TASK FORCE for understanding this conflict.

jlennon, thanks for posting those videos; I'll leave it to you or anyone to point out my incorrect statements since I don't see any from the two videos.

The second video seemed pretty unbiased but was so short that it was basically worthless except to point the viewer to subjects to google for more info.

The first one was pure Palestinian propaganda showing only that there are Jew-hating Jews but I already knew that just as there are America-hating Americans. Not all that surprising.

that speaks for itself. Lots of good links, photos and verifiable facts and information: George W. Bush - Terrorist in the White House and ISRAELI ATROCITIES:
(Warning, graphic photos) You might want to check out the Home page too.

No one can afford to be distracted by disinfo agents of Israel making bogus claims of "Jew hating" when the identities of the real "terrorists" are clear.

I've said it before, any presidential candidate who cannot place their allegiance to America first and foremost before any foreign "government" (especially Israel) is not fit to occupy any kind of public office whatsoever.

After this information becomes common knowledge, thugs like Cheney/Bush will have no place to hide, except Israel. Any person who attempts to legitimize what Israel's does is welcome to expat to Israel.


I was thinking the same thing but be careful about posting your personal information here OK?

An interesting quote from, (Take a look at the territory they have stolen in the 60 years!)

"How do you arrive at the conclusion that anti-Zionism equals anti-Semitism?"

"Semitism refers to a group of languages used by various tribes of what we call the Middle East. Zionism is a political movement founded by Ashkenazi Sabbateans in the 1800s in Europe. The Ashkenazi, of Turkic/Mongol/Caucasian descent, are mostly Russian, Hungarian, Lithuanian and Polish. They are Jewish by conversion."

"Roughly 95% of the population of Israel is Ashkenazi."

"Sephardic Jews, those of true Semitic lineage, are second class citizens in Israel. Israel was designed by Zionists to function as a racist, Apartheid state."

"Zionism is nobody's friend, least of all to true Jews, whom Zionism hides behind. Israel is, in fact, an anti-Semitic state, in that it daily murders true Semites."

Like I said, Israeli Zionists are not even Jews but they love to use the euphemism, "anti-Semitism" recklessly. It helps them to hide their lies, crimes and occupation of America.

“I don't know something called International Principles. I vow that I'll burn every Palestinian child (that) will be born in this area. The Palestinian woman and child is more dangerous than the man, because the Palestinian child's existence infers that generations will go on, but the man causes limited danger."

"I vow that if I was just an Israeli civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him. With one hit I've killed 750 Palestinians (in Rafah in 1956). I wanted to encourage my soldiers by raping Arabic girls as the Palestinian women is a slave for Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and nobody tells us what we shall do but we tell others what they shall do."

..Ariel Sharon in an interview with General Ouze Merham, 1956

Is it any wonder that legitimate Jews are reviled by them? These are the thugs behind 9/11 and George W Bush.

I can count a lot more "MISTAKES" than that.

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