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The claims of bringing stability to Iraq are just absurd

9/5/2005 11:48:00 AM GMT
The claims of bringing stability to Iraq are just absurd
By: Kevin Zeese

Just as President Bush claimed in the build-up to war that the U.S. was threatened by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and Saddam's connection to Osama bin Laden and 9/11 plotters– we are now being told a new falsehood – U.S. troops are in Iraq to stabilize the country. Even the slightest scratching of the reality surface shows the absurdity of this wartime propaganda.

Even Republicans are publicly piercing the veil of this deceit. Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NE), a likely presidential candidate who received two purple hearts in Vietnam and at the outset of the war called for sending two to three times as many troops to Iraq as the President sent, described Iraq as “looking more and more like Vietnam


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This is from an article authored by Nathaniel Turner and published by Information Clearing House:

The economy of the United States has matured to the point of nascent fascism at home and imperialist empire abroad. As events in New Orleans and Iraq dramatically illustrate, the earth is daily being made more toxic for human beings by the American Reich.

They are drenched in profits as we are drenched in blood. Their mass murder knows no limits and recognizes no national boundaries. The people of New Orleans were as thoughtlessly slaughtered as the people of Baghdad have been. In the years to come this planet will either become a vast slave labor camp or capitalism will be uprooted and destroyed.

The people of the world feel this threat to life and liberty in their bones but they are leaderless, confused and unaware that there is a way out. But resistance is possible! Our vast numerical superiority gives us a shot to win. No matter, we must fight! Label a resistance movement as revolutionary, give it whatever name you want, but labels as disparate as revolutionary and conservative are rendered meaningless when there is only the choice of slavery and death or survival and liberty.

How to get to an effective insurgency in the United States?

First, stop deluding the frantic and desperate American people that there will be any more honest elections in this country. How sad it is to hear good hearted people offering hope based on the 2006 or 2008 elections. The mass media and electoral machinery is fully under the control of those in power. Elections are now a quaint feature of American history. The men in charge of this country will only release their grip on us when their hearts are stopped or they are confined to prisons by a powerful armed force capable of overcoming their hired killers.

Second, enlist people and accept the leadership of people in this insurgency without regard to race or nationality. Unbeknownst to most oppressed white workers in this country, his natural ally is his African-American, Hispanic and immigrant counterpart. Racism and xenophobia and every other tactic of division have been the lifeblood of capitalism with good reason. Our unity is the only potentially deadly threat to this gang. White supremacy, Black-nationalism, religious fundamentalism, sexism, and homophobia are dead ends for all of us.

Third, simplify the ideology and clarify the battle lines. The U.S. is one of the last safe houses of people who live in obscene material wealth. The few people in this American safe house long ago declared war on all poor and working people. So far in that war we have been doing all the dying and the starving and the suffering. It’s time to make it a fair fight! It's got to be “even Steven

This Facist has ravished our economy, raped the earth, discounted the poor, enslaves women and has no respect for anyone but himself.
Red States...Katrina was a lesson to you all. This is what Bush did with it. There are no clearer signs. The Democrats and respectors of The Constitution have been trying to get this across to you. Now the Sign has been sent. Heed it. Throw those horrible, horrible facists our of your States. Vote ALL Republicans OUT. Recall them, so ANYTHING you have to do. Support HR 375 to make Bush accountable for his war crimes. It is he who has brought the Angels of Death to your State.

How are Democrats respectors of the Constitution? They've been among Bush's main enablers, because they sure ain't no opposition! Most of them even voted for the Patriot Acts for God's sake! Give me a break. They are all equally bums, and like the Republicans, most of them need to be run out of office!

... I think you may need to look beyond the traditional Red/Blue thinking to achieve any real change. Witness the support of almost everything Bush has done by the Democratic "leadership" to date.

The offering of limited alternatives that aren't really alternatives is a very common ploy amongst politicians just as it is used to demonstrate "competitiveness" within commercial oligarchies. Forget the labels and look very hard at the available choices next time.

The 2 party system doesn't work. It's been broken for a long time and now it's collapsing. Rather than 2 parties representing the citizens, we have 2 Machiavellian factions that are at war with one another. We are just the peasants they con into doing the dirty work - both parties.

The careful balance of power the founders crafted did not go far enough. There should be constitutional limits, checks, balances to every source of power, economic, governmental, religious, etc... Corporate power is the biggest threat to the American experiment right now. Extreme wealth is likewise a source of power that needs to be constrained. Wealthy individuals, or groups of wealthy individuals do not have the right to exert that power against the wishes of the larger group of citizens.

Wealth and influence have been a threat to our democracy since the Revolution. Big changes, and serious solutions are required to get out of this endless cycle of corruption and abuse of power. Neither party will even start to address this issue.

A very interesting read. I would have to agree that the wealthy have far too much influence and power in America. And, some people are indeed obscenely wealthy. Assuming the people were able to bring about sufficient changes in our political and economic systems, what would those changes be?

First, I suppose I should say clearly that I don't fully endorse all of the radical sentiment expressed in that item. But I also thought it was interesting reading -- at least in the sense that it provides some insight into the way some others are currently thinking.

I suppose my own suggested first step would be to try to reduce the impacts on the electoral process of corporate funding. I know there have been some such efforts, but it seems apparent that they haven't had any outstanding success. I'd also like to see the presidency made more accountable somehow during the course of its tenure. But I'm not quite sure how that could be achieved constitutionally. I just have a feeling that the "checks and balances" are not working today as they were originally intended and that increasing power in the hands of an "imperial presidency" is a main reason why.

On the economic side, it appears to me that at least some of the deregulation and privatization "theology" has gone too far in ignoring the underlying motivational facts of life. As I said in an earlier thread here, one cannot expect fiduciary responsibilities alone to supplant the need for some careful balancing of public interests.

What are your own thoughts on the subject?

Surely, I don't think we need to overthrow our government. Instead, I would work to make incremental changes.

The Red and Blue parties don't offer much of a choice. And, I'm not at all pleased with choosing the lesser of the two evils on election day. More campaign finance reform would be a good place to start, and could help level the playing field. Unfortunately, to date, reform attempts have not made any real difference. Most big money, corporate and private, still supports the Red and Blue parties, directly or indirectly. Until this changes, we will not have a legitimate choice.

You're not alone in questioning our President's power. Many people feel his power to deploy military force is unconstitutional, but I'll leave the constitutionality debate to the experts.

As for our economic system, I believe capitalism is the best system known to man, but it must be properly regulated. And, contrary to what some of my fellow "conservatives" may believe, unbridled capitalism is not a good thing. With human nature such as it is, unchecked capitalism breeds trouble. I would work to improve regulations, but I don't buy the "socialist program." For example, as troubled as our health care system is, I think socialized health care would be a disaster.


In regard to Nathaniel Turner's possible radical view's, please consider the following From one who beleive's Mr turners words should be considered to reflect a state of mind you may enevitibly come to identify with, should the political situation in this country deterioriate further, and the attempted employment of the rule of law prove to be subverted to the extent that render's further atempt, at any employment to the rule of law, futile.. we may then conclude that we possess but two alternative's. Except what we can't change through the rule of law, or something more drastic, and im sure you know what im refering to.

Mr turner has warned that placing hope on the 2006, and 2008 election's may result in failure to acheive the desired change your assuming will occure. Somewhere, up in the first 5 pages of, in one of the comment posting's, there is a link to a windows vidieo stream, produced durring what appears to be a congressional hearing that i confirmed was held back in Dec-04.
A witness testified, under oath, that he, a computer programer, who was employed by an I T firm & contracted with certain member's of the Flordia election commission, to produce a program that was intigrated, secretly, through a back door entry point, into the regular programing, of the mainfraim processor, that operated the entire Flordia State Election Commission computer network. This is the mainframe processor that is connected to, and operates the computer voting terminals, located in every polling station in Flordia. The witness employee's name is Clinton Curtis. He stated this program subverted the 2000 Flordia voting results not just in George Bush'e favor, but other Republican's favor also. I recomend everyone search out, find this link, watch, and listen to it. I discoverd this link, i think,Sat nite. It was late, i was tired, and i watched, was shocked, and went to bed.I had been essentially focused all day on NEW ORLEANS. I've consulted with others in here directly, asking their view on whether this is authentic, and i've been told it is in fact to be considered, "authentic" footage of a hearing held in December-04.

Why haven't we heard about this hearing, and the testimony of this witness? Good question. I don't know the true answer. Perhaps this revelation will be disclosed via the special prosecuter, Patrick Fitzgerald. We don't have too much longer to wait because this jury is due to be dismissed in early October. So, if there are to be Indictment's from Fitzgerald's investigation, they'll be handed down very soon. we'll see. There is also information lurking around that indicates that there was an possible attempt to asassinate fitzgerald and possibly the the members of his jury in Chicago. The story goes that an explosive device was discovered in the rail road tunnel that goes under the bld Fitzgerald and the jury was located in. If this was reported on the MSM, i missed that. Some of you out there may know more.

If the above is true, that there was an attempt to asassinate Fitzgerald, who might have the ability, and the motive? You answer that to yourself.(GB-DC-DR-KR-SL) As i said, i don't know. I did read this story on two different internet sites. Is that conformation that this occured? Not necessairly, from where im standing now, at this minute. But understand, im looking at alot of information that is everywhere to be found. And right now, im tired as hell. i need to crash.

The bottom line, essentially, is this. What if everything i've reported here turns out factual? If it is factual, especially the voter fruad thing in Flordia, (which means so might also be true for Ohio) there is certainly an investigsation going on "RIGHT NOW", and indictment's will surly result. But perhaps not. WHAT IF WE CANT VOTE ANYONE OUT OF CONGRESS WE TRY TO? And things continue on like it has been? Do we except that we can't change all this corruption? And learn to live with it? AND WATCH MORE INVASIONS AND SEE MORE OF OUR YOUNG RETURN IN BODY BAGS?



Election fraud remains alive and well, and Democrats may be more guilty than Republicans. At least, things have improved somewhat since the days when Tammany Hall Democrats busted heads in New York. But, I live in a city where Democratic thugs still threaten and assault the opposition. A "level playing field" may help, or it may only spread the corruption around.

Like the U.S. Constitution I hope the PATRIOT Act contains a section that allows the people to protect themselves and take action from this Terrorist Administration.

Okay, I'm being facetious.

But this Destructive Administration does not know how to save lives they know and practice the destruction of life.

In lieu of outright revolution I believe our best hopes to remove these Criminals from our White House is to progress the process of H.Res. 375 introduced by Rep. Barbara Lee (D-CA-9). H.Res 375 requires the Criminals of this Administration to supply communications between the U.S. and U.K. governments on INTELLIGENCE planning leading up to the war/occupation of Iraq.

People, brothers and sisters, if you have not already done so, contact your legislators and demand that they support Ms. Lee in her request to get to the root of the lies that were forced fed to Congress and We the People.

Our Country, We the People, the World cannot continue with the leadership abuses
used by the Criminals in this Administration and OUR WHITE HOUSE.


Gregory S. Robles

i trust you will forgive me if i don't jump on the "one global community" thing. we're trying to get rid of the "one world order" right's kind of scary to think there's 2 org. out here ...
maybe you can convince me later ,with a name change.....

Good thing we live in a country that you can exercise your beleifs with a vote. So as I read what you lunatics have to say about the Right I can easily see that the Right is going to lose in 2006 & 2008. (just like 2004) Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Condi, etc. will be hung in town square for "war crimes" that enver happened and the world will be free of fossil fuels and all pollution????

It must feel good to dream...

Richie "The Right Wing Kook" Rich

The only problem is that the U.S. system of so-called "freedom and democracy" is rapidly boiling down to nothing more than a vote with no real choice.

Uzbekistan has elections too and the last turnout there was about 70% of the voting population. They even have a parliamentary system of government, at least in theory. But none of that means much in practice.

Sorry you're so pissed richie, but you belong to a cult. The rightwing ideology is a destructive social disorder, the same psychology infected Nazi Germany in the 30s. Hey, everyone is frustrated and angry at the chaos and unfairness of human existence. But it's the cowardly rightwing that chooses to see only what it wants to believe, and tries to bully the world into following it's rules. No chance pal. Hitler was powerful for a while too, but the bullied fought back. You may ultimately be able to destroy America, but your ideology has nothing to offer but misery. Maybe you could sell T-shirts some day.. "I helped destroy America!".

It must feel powerful to hate...

An Independent that avoids kool aid.

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