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Text of the Downing Street Memo


Text of the Downing Street Memo - a document containing meeting minutes transcribed during the British Prime Minister's meeting on July 23, 2002


Listen to audio of recreation of the meeting.

As originally reported in the The Sunday Times, May 1, 2005


From: Matthew Rycroft
Date: 23 July 2002
S 195 /02

cc: Defence Secretary, Foreign Secretary, Attorney-General, Sir Richard Wilson, John Scarlett, Francis Richards, CDS, C, Jonathan Powell, Sally Morgan, Alastair Campbell


Copy addressees and you met the Prime Minister on 23 July to discuss Iraq.
This record is extremely sensitive. No further copies should be made. It should be shown only to those with a genuine need to know its contents.

John Scarlett summarised the intelligence and latest JIC assessment. Saddam's regime was tough and based on extreme fear. The only way to overthrow it was likely to be by massive military action. Saddam was worried and expected an attack, probably by air and land, but he was not convinced that it would be immediate or overwhelming. His regime expected their neighbours to line up with the US. Saddam knew that regular army morale was poor. Real support for Saddam among the public was probably narrowly based.

C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.

CDS said that military planners would brief CENTCOM on 1-2 August, Rumsfeld on 3 August and Bush on 4 August.

The two broad US options were:

(a) Generated Start. A slow build-up of 250,000 US troops, a short (72 hour) air campaign, then a move up to Baghdad from the south. Lead time of 90 days (30 days preparation plus 60 days deployment to Kuwait).

(b) Running Start. Use forces already in theatre (3 x 6,000), continuous air campaign, initiated by an Iraqi casus belli. Total lead time of 60 days with the air campaign beginning even earlier. A hazardous option.

The US saw the UK (and Kuwait) as essential, with basing in Diego Garcia and Cyprus critical for either option. Turkey and other Gulf states were also important, but less vital. The three main options for UK involvement were:

(i) Basing in Diego Garcia and Cyprus, plus three SF squadrons.

(ii) As above, with maritime and air assets in addition.

(iii) As above, plus a land contribution of up to 40,000, perhaps with a discrete role in Northern Iraq entering from Turkey, tying down two Iraqi divisions.

The Defence Secretary said that the US had already begun "spikes of activity" to put pressure on the regime. No decisions had been taken, but he thought the most likely timing in US minds for military action to begin was January, with the timeline beginning 30 days before the US Congressional elections.

The Foreign Secretary said he would discuss this with Colin Powell this week. It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran. We should work up a plan for an ultimatum to Saddam to allow back in the UN weapons inspectors. This would also help with the legal justification for the use of force.

The Attorney-General said that the desire for regime change was not a legal base for military action. There were three possible legal bases: self-defence, humanitarian intervention, or UNSC authorisation. The first and second could not be the base in this case. Relying on UNSCR 1205 of three years ago would be difficult. The situation might of course change.

The Prime Minister said that it would make a big difference politically and legally if Saddam refused to allow in the UN inspectors. Regime change and WMD were linked in the sense that it was the regime that was producing the WMD. There were different strategies for dealing with Libya and Iran. If the political context were right, people would support regime change. The two key issues were whether the military plan worked and whether we had the political strategy to give the military plan the space to work.

On the first, CDS said that we did not know yet if the US battleplan was workable. The military were continuing to ask lots of questions.

For instance, what were the consequences, if Saddam used WMD on day one, or if Baghdad did not collapse and urban warfighting began? You said that Saddam could also use his WMD on Kuwait. Or on Israel, added the Defence Secretary.

The Foreign Secretary thought the US would not go ahead with a military plan unless convinced that it was a winning strategy. On this, US and UK interests converged. But on the political strategy, there could be US/UK differences. Despite US resistance, we should explore discreetly the ultimatum. Saddam would continue to play hard-ball with the UN.

John Scarlett assessed that Saddam would allow the inspectors back in only when he thought the threat of military action was real.

The Defence Secretary said that if the Prime Minister wanted UK military involvement, he would need to decide this early. He cautioned that many in the US did not think it worth going down the ultimatum route. It would be important for the Prime Minister to set out the political context to Bush.


(a) We should work on the assumption that the UK would take part in any military action. But we needed a fuller picture of US planning before we could take any firm decisions. CDS should tell the US military that we were considering a range of options.

(b) The Prime Minister would revert on the question of whether funds could be spent in preparation for this operation.

(c) CDS would send the Prime Minister full details of the proposed military campaign and possible UK contributions by the end of the week.

(d) The Foreign Secretary would send the Prime Minister the background on the UN inspectors, and discreetly work up the ultimatum to Saddam.

He would also send the Prime Minister advice on the positions of countries in the region especially Turkey, and of the key EU member states.

(e) John Scarlett would send the Prime Minister a full intelligence update.

(f) We must not ignore the legal issues: the Attorney-General would consider legal advice with FCO/MOD legal advisers.

(I have written separately to commission this follow-up work.)


(Rycroft was a Downing Street foreign policy aide)


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if it's so important to establish democracy in the middle east, why didn't bush recommend that our friends the saudis lead the way?
just another example of his false justifications. he would never make demands on those who paid so handsomely to see him succeed in politics so he could do their bidding. we could have introduced democracy in the arab world without starting a war. have you heard him make any mention of the saudi suppression of their own people or their torture chambers?

and i wonder often as cindy sheahan does whether he has tried to persuade his duaghters to serve in this life or death struggle with the terrorists in iraq. has anyone in this administration offered up a loved one to the war effort?

The question arises as to why everyone didn't come to the new world since it offered freedom and more opportunity,plus it was a land flowing with milk and honey? the reason is to be found in the phenomenon known as the alpha state.

Throughout the animal kingdom there can be found those with a supper abundance of aggressive,risk taking,domineering genes.Alphas as they are known are willing to risk even their very lives and the lives of others to be the leader of the pack.Once they mature the reigning monarch days are numbered for the alpha is waiting in the wings to kill if necessary to establish hiself/herself as the new leader of the herd.

Nonalphas on the other hand are more docile,and permissive.Nonalphas perfer not to rock the boat,and will endure very unsatisfactory conditions rather then risk the insecurity that offten accompanies change.These are they that are locked into their comfort zones.

Alphas on the other hand are driven by an insaitable drive to establish their dominance.They have supperiority complexes that drive them to believe that they are best suited to establish their control of things. They have it their way or no way mentality.

So it was that when the alpha type personalities of the old world heard about the new world there arose within them an irreistable erge to leave their comfort zones and come to the new world.

So why didn't everyone come to the new world? It was the alphas that came because only they had the traits necessary to brave the numerous dangers inherant in making the voyage.The nonalphas lacking in the necessary traits stayed home.

Thus it was that with each boat load of immigrants ,America was filling up with alphas while the old world was being drained of their alphas. This explains more than anything why anything involving high levels of creativity,and risk taking has to be done by America because alphas are required in such cases and the alphas are all over here.

The British who were the reigning Monarch never had a chance to maintain control of the colonies.No matter how good they treated the colonies they were destined to loose control because as more and more alphas arrived,America was becoming concentrated in alphas,and remember alphas will not submit to outside control they have an insaitable drive for dominance.

American history books try to make the british out to be tyrants who misstreatment of the colonies sparked the revolution.Excesive taxation and taxation without representation for example are given as reasons for the revolution.Yet we tax ourselves more excessively than did the English rulers and, we have numerous examples of taxation without representation! So where's the revolution?There is no revolt today because alphas will do to themselves what they won't allow others to do to them

Having deposed the reigning monarch the American alpha surveyed their territory ready to quell any threath to their dominance.The native Americans would be the first victims of the emerging American Alpha state for unfortunetly for them they laid directly in the path of the most concentrated Alpha the world had ever known.The American alpha with its fangs barred turnned its collective eyes ever westward,and with a snarl and a deafenening roar leaped upon the unsuspecting native Americans determined to make these peoples submit to their dominance.

There was a new God rising serving notice that the newly formed American Alpha State meant to establish itself as supreme throughout the north American Continent.Thomas Jefferson the third American Alpha president Told the Lewis And Clark expedition to inform the indigenous peoples THAT THERE IS A NEW GOD IN WASHINGTON.THERE IS A CHANGE COMMING UPON THE CONTINENT AND THEY HAD BETTER LEARN THE WHITE MAN's WAY.What was implied here was submit or face extermination.With alphas it is their way or no way.Alphas will always depose the exsiting monarchs.They have an insaitable erge to dominate.

The genes of the founding alphas are now dispersed throughout America making America the most strong willed,domineering agressive people in the world hell bent upon our way for remember with alphas it their way or no way.

Having overthown the existing monarchs on the Noerth American continent the doom of the native Americans was inevitable.They were exterminated beccause with alphas it their way or no way. Nor were the Native Americans the only ones to feel the furry of the new American Alpha.Having vanquished some 500 soverign Indians states the American Alpha turnned south to Mexico and with its claws tore from mexico more territory.

With it appetite for territory and dominance unchecked the American Alpha sprang upon Spanish territoties in Floriday and Califonia.Like its animal counterpart that urinates upon the boudries of its territory toserve notice that it is the undusputed ruller of the area,the American Alpha issued the Monroe Doctrine warning all others that America is King of the hemisphere!!

Now in recent times the American Alpha is telling the entire world that they must submit to American desires or face regime change.Make no mistake America is not just annother state that worships God. America has become God! All nations have as their primary responseability the obligation to put the wishes of the American Alpha first.

As the current alpha president Bush has declared in much the same manner as Jesus Christ said in scripture,YOUR EITHER WITH ME OR AGANIST ME. Futhernore the God America maintains that any nation not judged by her to be with her is aganist her and therefor the American Alpha has the right to premtively attack any nation she regards as a threath!

As we see in Iraq America is changing an unfriendly regime into an American friedly regime because with alphas its our way or no way.
This is why America has become the most dangerous nation on the planet.Because for the first time in history there has a risen an alpha state with the power to destroy the entire world,and because of American concentration of alphas who believe its their way or no way this power is harnesed to a people who have the will to use it!

For some examples.The American Alpha tested an Atomic bomb when it was feared such an explosion might set the atsmosphere on fire and ther-by destroy the Earth.But the American alpha was undetered.The American Alpha was willing to take that terrifying risk inorder to gain for itself a weapon that would enable it to dominate the world.

With the dropping of the two atomic bombs the greatest snarl of an alpha was displayed.The roar of an aroused lion before it strikes was unleashed as the bomb exploded and two cities were wipped from off the Earth!The American Alpha had demonstrated to the whole world her willingness to use such a horrific weapon.

The dropping of the Atomic bomb would not be the last example of the American alphas willningness to risk world destruction inorder for her to dominate consider the Cuban missel crisis.The American Alpha and Soviet alphas barred fangs snarling at each other for world dominance in a showdown when the Soviet alpha appeared to challange the American alph's will to take Russian missels out of Cuba.

Make no mistake the American alpha was willing to risk nuclear destruction inorder to have her way.Fortunetly the Russian Alpha was not willing to risk nuclear destruction and proposed a face saving way out of the nightmare. Russia would take her missels out of Cuba in exchange for the American Alpha taking her missels out of Turkey,and a promise not to invade Cuba.

Thus the Russian alpha accomplishe what she wanted,removal of American missels from Turkey and a pledge from America not to invade Cuba and The American alpha appeared to have forced the Russian bear to blink.

But the point here is make no mistake the American Alpha by these two examples has demonstrated a willingness to risk world destruction in preferance to not having her way. Remember with Alphas its their way or no way. This is what makes America the most dangerous nation in the world.

Unless some way is found to rein in the American Alpha the world is in mortal danger.Perhaps the only solution is not to try to tame the beast for the beast has already demonstrated a reckless quest for dominance that will risk tottal destruction inorder to dominate and has the unchalengable military power to do so. Perhaps our only hope just maybe is that if enough of us Americans realize the gravity of what is being said here,and don't go into denile as we are prone to do,remember alphas are self righteous with a God complex,maybe just maybe we will rein in ourselves.

If ever there was a time for self controll it is now.Remember Alphas will do to themselves what they won't allow others to do to them.Right at this very moment the American Alpha is standing up with our fangs bsrred poised to use our devastating military might to accomplish our dominance.Weather we strike or are stayed depends upon our self control.

Until we become aware of our over powering erge to dominate and rein ourselves in for no other world power has the power to do so the American Alpha will remain the most dagerous nation on the planet,and with the American flag on the moon ,perhaps the most dangerous planet in the universe.

thoughts from the butter-fly


"Unless some way is found to rein in the American Alpha the world is in mortal danger."

I'll very blunt here, no matter what America does now. How many die, How many wars. How much the good people in America try to rein themselves as you said. America is done for. This is an empire that has reached it's climax and will inevitably crumble. Empires have a limited life span. One look at history is enough. As a non american I'm whatching this from the outside, perhaps this is the best point of view from which to assess reality... I don't think the world is in mortal danger, I think America is mortal danger...

I agree with Medusa. As long as America was dressed in democractic garb and 'feeding the poor' who would make war with her? Now we have changed our clothes, and the pretext of spreading peace and democracy over thousands of innocent dead bodies rings of hollow deceit. W an Alpha? You only need to be greedy, lying, minipulater to wear his shoes. "A mission from God" he claims...and he's right!
He's the one bringing judgment on the US. How do I know?

I am one of the few 'Christian' mystic's to come from America. The ancient propecies are written in mystic voice--the religions can't understand the ones from Daniel and Revelations but I can. Blow the dust off your Bibles and have a good look at Rev. 13. As for the literal meaning, I'll drop a few clues. In the language of similitude, a beast is a world dominating Government. Called a beast because it had to do some brutal animal-like things to get there. The final world Gov. arises having a blasphemious name and seven heads(the number of completion)one looks dead--and 10 crowns. (the union). The head with the death blow only appears to be dead, until it did, a cold war prevented the rise of this one multi-headed world Goverment.

Next the is a MOUTH of the beast speaking big things and blasphemy. All POWER IS GIVEN HIM over every nation...and power over the saints of the earth. (A saint is, by definition, anyone who separates or dedicates themself to God...) Everyone who reveres this "mouth" says, "Who is like the beast and who is able to make war with him?" The prophet Daniel spoke of the same beast, he saw that he would beat down, destroy, and trample nations.

Then there arises another beast with 2 horns like a lamb ( a united power with Godly-like appearance). This beast will bring "fire from heaven" in the sight of everyone.

Revelations 13 is fulfilling to this point...and it was given to him to continue 3 1/2 years. According to the remainder of the chapter there is a power shift and the head that was (thought to be) dead is suddenly in control. Now comes the mark of man placing himself as God=666.

Chapter 14 through 17 is speaking behind the scenes in another dimension revealing secrets and the future of God's elect. Chapter 17 is on religious apostasy which "rides" the beast. Chapter 18 fortells the fall of yet another would-be world Govt. Judgment comes in "one hour" and it's downright scary. The message from God is plain here: "Come out of her my people, lest you share in her sins and receive of her plagues, For her sins have reached to heaven and God has remembered her iniquities.

This is for those with ears to hear....

This beast was created

The wild kingdom comparision of the original settlers of the U.S. to Alpha leaders in wildlife was interesting and had some very good points. Unfortunately, the writer of this failed to recognize that we are not animals.
Unlike creatures in the animal kingdom, we are able to recognize physical threats to our lives. We are also able to take premptive measures to prevent them.
It is true the U.S. is the only country to unleash the power of the Atomic Bomb. However, the writer of this seemed to believe this was an unprovoked attack. Our Alphas were simply responding to the unprovoked attack and continuing threat presented by Japan's Alphas.
Further, this writer claims the only immigrants entering this country are Alphas as well. Based on this statement, the slums and depressed areas in the big cities of this country are filled with Alphas. Alpha Immigrants disguising themselves as uneducated, unemployable or underemployed people requiring State and Federal assistance just to survive.
America is one of the greatest countries in Earth history. We help those in need, feed those who would otherwise go hungry, defend the defenseless. If we want to continue on this path, we must protect ourselves from threats by those who revel and profit from those in need, those who are hungry and those who are defenseless. If we want to protect our nation from overpopulation, we must make sure there are places other than the USA to live and enjoy the same freedoms we do.
Like it or not, any country who harbors terrorists, supports terrorists, or supplies terrorists with food, shelter, or arms is a threat to the US as they are providing comfort and aid to our enemy. An enemy whose sole purpose in life is to kill as many Americans as possible.
America is certainly blessed with a large population of Alphas. These Alphas have taken medical science to levels not thought of 10 years ago, they introduced the world to the automobile, Television, Computers, and other technologies which have brought comfort and even life itself to countless other nations. Only an Alpha nation could bring these things to reality.
As concerns the war in Iraq, I have to ask the writer if he/she supported our actions in Germany against Hitler. The leaders of Germany, at the time, and the leaders of Iraq had much in common. They both invaded foreign countrys without provocation, and attempted to wipe out segments of the population who did not share the same beliefs they did/do. I dislike war as much as the next guy. There comes a time when there are no other options. If you can't support the war in Iraq, how can you support our actions in Hitler's Germany. There are scores of people living in America right now with serial numbers tatooed on them who thank God the american way of thinking was different then than it is now.
We MUST protect our nation and our nations way of life. There is but 1 simple question to ask yourself. Will the world be a better place if American wins it's war on terrorism or if terrorism wins it's war with America?? If terrorism wins, we won't be allowed to share our thoughts and opinions on this message board.

I do not condone any "terrorist" attack carried out on innocents no matter what the circumstances, but I would urge average Americans to think a little bit more clearly about peoples reasons for doing what they do. There is a lot of deep - seated hatred and misinformation out there which needs addressing - there's more to the world than good guys and bad guys.
How many times have I heard the word "terrorist" used with the feeling that the user doesnt grasp what they are saying. You would call anyone who fights against an established system using whatever methods at their disposal for the most effective result a "terrorist" if they have different political views to yours. If you find their views and beliefs more appealing you might be graceful enough to call them 'freedom fighters' or 'revolutionarys'. Just remember that to the people of many countries worldwide who have suffered at the hands of American and British foreign policy, we are the terrorists.
If Americans really cared so much for fighting "terrorism", then I suppose they had good reason for letting American citizens openly flaunt relations, moral, and financial support for the IRA and other european revolutionary organizatios without making any significant stand against them.
It is also interesting that you should liken current affairs to that of WW2. The US government didnt seem overly keen to do anything much until their hand was forced by Japans attack. I think this is a slur on the heroic sacrifices of the men of the US armed forces of WW2.
Just two more things, the 'Automobile' was a German invention and the television was Scottish/Russian depending on who you favour.

The only way that America will be stopped is internally, the rest of the World must be patient, peacefully resist and try to help the American people to awaken.

Your right the news media is biased in favor of the democrats, or the party of liers.

You'er kidding right? THis administration is th eworst bunch of liars who ever was in office. It started by lying to the religios right tellign them that they would represent higher morals and ethics. Sicne then, it's been lies and deceit, over and over. Impeach Bush!!!

i think bush needs to be impeached. and also the vise president to

not that bush is not bubbling cesspool of pus either, but the demon that he converses with, surrounds him, preventing anyone from seeing his pustuled soul remnant.

and once these are impeached, the whole lot should be tried on "Crimes of War" and "Treason"!

No one ever does anything for just one reason. Certainly nothing as grand-scale as beginning a war. Of course, all the true reasons for going to war are likely to remain secret forever, but there is some merit to every supposition posted here.

GWB needed to spur our war-based economy by attacking a country that would br unlikely to cause many casualties for our side. This allows us to improve our economy without upsetting the American people with high casualty numbers.

Re-election was imminent and he received good approval ratings for Afghanistan so why not? Who would want to unseat a wartime president?

Iraq was a good target because we have been at odds with them since Bush Sr drove them from Kuwait in the early 90's. We suffered very few casualties then as well.

Oil may be a factor because whatever government ends up ruling there will likely repay us with a cheap supply.

Saddam was a terrible ruler who commited atrocities for years so would anyone really object to ousting him? Plus he put a "Hit" on GWB's Dad, so he had to go.

Also, would the Christian world complain much about an offensive in a Muslim country? Certainly not as much as they would if we attacked another Christian nation.

Our presence in Iraq is also an ideal location. After getting into Afghanistan and Iraq, we now have troops located very centrally in the middle east. Imagine how easy it is now to take Iran with our military in the countries on both its east and west borders, and in the water to the south. Will that be next? They have the weapons of mass destruction that was the rationale for this war.

The war was neccesary for all the wrong reasons, economy, oil, vengence, military testing grounds, strategic location, whatever...

But what more can we do but write our congressmen and bicker amonst ourselves?

I simple have a question. It is will known that air borne heat rises and never goes down, so taking that little bit of fact the only part of the two towers that should have collasped is from the floor just above when the aircrafts hit the towers to the top. Now the question,"What caused both towers to imployed" What weakened the the floors below the impact floor of the towers so that they to collasped. There are to many questions that have not been asked nor answered and the American people sleep on uncaring that they have been lied to and that thousands of Americans where and still are being kill because of greed. Did terrorest bring down the World Trade Center? I do not believe that it was terrorest, but rather as has been said before, FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL

I live in NY. What made the towers collapse was the amount of heat generated by the explosion which turned each tower into a giant kiln. When the core temps reached critical the steel beams supporting the towers melted and the buildings went down. It was as simple as that.

Just cuz you live in New York don't mean shit. I don't mean to be rude, but I've heard countless eyewitness accounts of secondary explosions, similar to those in a controlled demolition. There has never in history been a steel-framed building that collapsed due to fire, until September 11th that is. Fires like this simply don't get hot enough, even with jet fuel, to melt steel. Research the physics. What about building 7? It wasn't even hit by a plane, that means no jet fuel, and it collapsed just like the two big towers, straight down. To get a building that size to fall straight down into it's own foundation like that is either an act of God or some careful planning by people who know how to blow up buildings. I believe it was Micahel Bloomberg who owned the buildings, and of course he had a gigantic insurance policy on them, even though they were thought to be virtually indestructible. Once the towers fell it was a slam dunk getting the American public to support going to war. Of course we should bring the evil-doers to justice, as Bush told us. Ok, I can go along with that, assuming Osama did it, but where is Osama now? We seem to have forgotten about him fairly quickly. On to the real prize, Iraq, then Iran, then maybe Korea. Then if the Chinese keep it up we'll have to knock them around a little. Where does it end? Bush and his cronies pockets, that's where. The mere idea of a war on terror is a joke. You can't stop people from hating you and wanting to kill you by going after them with bombs and guns. Our real enemies are in our capital.
Peace out, and control the fear, don't let them win by making us afraid.

Do your, " ... countless eyewitness accounts ... " consist of an amateuristic conspiracy video uploaded to YouTube? I highly doubt you heard these accounts yourself, and citing such a source as that rediculous video is just plain idiocy.

But to the physics: You don't think that an airliner weighing over 10 tons traveling at high speeds suddenly being stopped by a building is enough force to destroy steel? And for a building that tall, damaging the steel infastructure on maybe 1 or 2 floors IN THE MIDDLE would be enough to cause the top half to come crashing down on the bottom half.

Basically, you hack a guy's arm off until it's hanging by a few shreds of skin, and then you take out a Zippo and burn off what's left holding the arm. Yeah, no other building in history has ever collapsed of fire ... then again, no other building in history has had a F***ING JET FLOWN INTO IT.

Think about it: let's get a some SCUD missiles (enough to equal the mass of an airplane), fill their warheads up with jet fuel, and then launch them simultaneously at a skyscraper and see what happens! Hmm ... High-speed impact + Large amounts of combustible fuel + Initial impact and explosion + Smoldering fire burning at rediculously hot temperatures = ? Do the math.

Let's look at this logically ... you conspiracy theorists say that fire cannot destroy a building, but you fail to even account for the immediate destructive force of the attack which was the IMPACT. The fire just finished it off ...

I am in no way supporting our Administration, or justifying the war in Iraq ... I am just saying that these allegations of conspiracy have no more merit than allegations of "Men in Black", or testing on extraterrestrials at Area 51. Give me a break ...

I think you are bringing a level-headed, fairminded balance to this discussion. Next time, please do it with the spellcheck on.

What caused the twin towers to "implode" was the fact that both aircraft were literally full of fuel when they hit the towers. That fuel that didn't immediately explode upon impact, and there was a great deal of it, ran down the elevator shafts (in the center of the towers)of both buildings. The resulting fires inside the shafts ran almost fully down the building and caused the structure of the building to degrade enough for the building to collapse down upon itself.
No hidden "money trail". No "secret conspiracies". Quit trying to blame all but those who are responsible. The terrorists did this. The terrorists are responsible for the destruction (and the continued destruction) of thousands of innocent lives. How about taking out your misplaced aggressions on them for a change?

I am impressed by your explanation for the reasons why the towers fell but.....

The death and destruction is not to be blamed squarely on the shoulders of 'terrorists'.

Ask yourself a few questions:

Who funded and trained Osama Bin Laden and 'Al Qaeda' in the 1980s?

Which countries and governments supports Saudi Arabia, the most tyrannical and extreme thoecracy in the middle east?

Why do these countries do this?

Who created the theatre for terror that is now Iraq, instead of allowing the Iraqi people to gain strength and overthrow Sadaam themselves by lifting sanctions that only increased the population's dependence on the Dictator?

Why does the US choose to make its enemy an ideology and then go after it with bombs and bullets? (and in the intermittent period destroy the image of their own ideology)

Wht haven't the coalition caught Osama Bin-Laden, found WMD in Iraq or made the world any safer now or in the long term?

There are a million more questions and answers, the story is not as simple as the terrorists attacking people.

But remember that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, and this applies to both sides of the supposed war.

Dude, you're awesome.

Allowing the Iraqi people to gain strength and overthrow Sadaam themselves!? Are you raving mad!? The madman used chemical weapons to kill thousands of his own people. Sadaam was a DICTATOR. You don't overthrow a dictator fool. If you so much as pissed this guy off even a little bit, he had the power to have you shot and then bill your family for the bullet. Have your read 1984? Have you read V for Vendetta? Have you read ANY dystopian novel!? The ultimate tool of a dictatorship is FEAR to keep its people in a constant state of submission.

I am in no way justifying the war in Iraq, but your argument that the Iraqi people could have risen up on their own is just rediculous. As Lewis Black would say, "I won't imitate [you] out of respect for the mentally retarded."

^^^^ do you really believe that?

If so may God help you.

Nice story, you should write fiction novels.

So your explanations of the towers 1 & 2 falling like they were imploded with explosives is that the Jet fuel ran down the elevator shafts. Then please explain to me why WTC building 7 fell in the same fashion, yet no plane hit the building, There was a report of Diesel fuel kept in that building, but diesel burning will not create enough heat to melt steal. One other question why was the WTC crime seen cleaned up so quickly, and why was all the steal sent (Guarded by FBI) to the smelting plants prior to proving your case of that the Jet fuel downed building 1 & 2.

This is clearly a false flag event and a sloppy one at that, the clues will all come together and the treasons bastards that truly perpetrated this heinous event will be hanged.

Impeach Bush

It's not true that heat only rises. Heat is also conducted through solids. Furthermore, if heat only rose, a fire started on the third floor of a three story building would burn at most the third story. In fact, there are many observations of entire buildings burning completely down due to fire starting near the top. If we want to beat the Republicans, we need to avoid spreading/believing conspiracy theories that show ignorance of science.

Right on bro.

Yes, heat rises. But FIRE goes wherever the hell it wants as long as there's some kind of burnable material. Take a candle. If what you conspiracy theorists say is true, then a candle would never burn down. It would burn UP to the the tip of the wick, and then die. But that's not what happens. The flame travels DOWN because that's the only place where there is more burnable material.

But this whole argument is futile anyways; none of this "heat rises" crap has anything to do with 9/11. This guy is right, the way to beat the current Administration is to call them on the failure we now call the Long War, not accuse them of rediculous conspiracy for which we have NO EVIDENCE and only speculation.

what do you mean no evidence?Steven Jones ,a physicist at BYU found thermite on samples of steel from all 3 wtc buildings that collapsed.How much more evidence do you need?I think you are wrong,the way to beat them is to call them on 911,because the war,the lies the tyranny is all based on that day.
the rediculous conspiracy theorie is the official story,that somehow osama bin laden from a cave in bumfuckistan was able to have NORAD stand down for over 80 minutes in the most protected airspace on the planet,during the worst attack in american history.Or that jet fuel could melt 4 foot thick steel beems,or buildin 7 dont even get me started on building 7.the evidence is clear and plentiful my friend.Just think about it ,You are arguing about candles when thermite was found on the steel.

Here is a web site of a documentary on the 911 "attacks" will find it very interesting.

i saw a great documentary on second by secon what happened with the WTC bldgs.

The buildings were constructed with some strange angles in the outer beams, there were too few screws and the ones there were - were sheared off, the stairs were between the 2 elevator shafts and one plane went right into the center of the building the other was just off of center.

When the planes hit, the outer beams began to give, the screws were shearing, full tanks of airplane fuel flooded the corradors, smoke was pervasive, and for many the stairway was blocked ... but the building collapsed the way it did and as quick as it did becuase of construction. The trusses as they are called.

Sometimes throughout history there have been times and situations that require people to wake up and realise that the world they live in stinks.GWB has miraculously become your president. This in itself is unbelievable as I have never seen such a moronic dumbfuck on television before, let alone leader of the 'free world'. Admittedly he had the help of every lying capitalist scumfuck in your country to get there and somehow between them they managed to prevent a quater of a million black/hispanic/past criminals/democrat people voting, but come on...Once he had called enough of his daddies friends and managed to promise enough people with enough money that he would be a cocksuck for cash president, he then incredibly was sworn in. I know there were a few of you outside his motorcade route with some placards and all but where the fuck were, and are, the rest of you?! Had that lying, dangerous, christian-fundamentalist cunt come anywhere close to 10 Downing St then our whole country, and more importantly some of our media, would have masacred him.Maybe... well we did get Blair who is much the same apart from the God thing.
Bush and his lying and his arrogance and his stupidity are leading your country and mine down a path that is going to lead, if we are not already there, to huntingdons clash of civilisations. I have nothing against muslims, I probably have more against christians cos its been shoved down my throat all my life. The point is though, in moderation any religion is fine with me. Its when morons like Bush or bin Laden use religion for their own sick gains.
We all know about the military corporations running our countries and pressuring our politicians. Halliburton et al... It is these fucking bastards who we need to stop. Bush may be one of biggest pricks in the history of the world but my anger towards him is merely his stupidity that does not allow him to see how much of a pathetic tool he is, pretending to rub shoulders with the big boys when all he has done is be born to his daddy and suck enough corporate cock to become the face all that is bad about your country. oh, how history is going to judge him.....
Cunts like ashcoft and cheney, not to mention our own john major have made a fucking terrible, obscene amount of money through lobbying weakminded fools like bush into war, conflict and arms sales. The fact that halliburton now have oil pipes through afghanistan that the taliban would never let them have, and soon might have total control over iraqi oil just adds to the anger. Are they not also responsible for every US soldiers food and modest kit? its tragic that these links and trails of money go un-noticed apart from sites like these. As the late great Bill Hicks once said,

' when your elected to become president. like clinton did? regardless of your promises on the campaign trail..blah blah blah. your taken into this smoky dark room with the twelve capitalist scumfucks that got you in there.And this little ah, pop down screen comes down' mmammma' And a big guy with a cigar 'puff puff' roll the film'' And its a shot of the kennedy assassination from an angle that you've never seen before....that looks suspiciously off the grassy knoll. And screen goes up and the lights go on and they go, to the new president,
'any questions?'
clinton: 'urgh...just what my agenda is?!'
capitalist scumfuck: 'first we bomb baghdad'
Cinton:'you got it.....'

that was written about 10-12 years ago. We need to do something about our world. Its time to fucking wake up.

don't let his dimwitted, imbecilic and moronic behavior fool you.

bush is actually not a so-called christian. And No ... neither am I. I believe in seperation of church and state and that it meant 'all' religions, not just christianity.

just wanted to let you know most of us find him as despicable as the rest of his cronies.

my head spins when I read of is newest 'stupid trick'. I have often wondered if I have fallen through a worm hole into a parallel 'reverse' dimension.

just last week I read a neocon site that theorized that bush has been a Liberal all of this time. I am sure there are dumbf*cks that will believe that.

believe me, this mess is nauseating, horrific and terrifying!

what is the goverment keeping secret about this sand fly?
anybody bitten will develop intensive scarring, loss of joints and eventually either skin cancer or a shut down of internal organs.
are all the victims going to make the fatality list also,? or are we keeping it in the dark. there is only one anti dote available. effects might not show up until years after.

Saddam Hussein and Syria were never threats to the U.S. They are regional rivals of Ariel Sharon,s government. Why is Israel the largest reciprient of U.S. foriegn aid? Because the Israeli lobby and the Zionists within the U.S. control our media and would destroy and smear any politician who dared to tell the truth. The Israeli lobby are political terrorists who have done far more damage to America than Al Quaeda could dream of. Who are the wealthiest people in the U.S.? who are the CEOs of the largest corporations? Who controls the banks, the USURY rates, the world bank? Who are the journalists? Who controls the U.S.? Why weren't we told why Richard Perle and Daniel Feith were recently removed from their positions at the PENTAGON? Both these men were/are hirelings of the Israeli government. How come whenever someone mentions the strange parasitic relationship of Israel and the U.S., the subject is changed or the inquirer is ridiculed or smeared? George W. Bush isn't dumb. He's just not as smart as his jewish handlers. Tell the Christian Zionists that, Jesus promised real estate to no one. They are swallowing a huge deception. REV2:9, REV 3:9, JOHN 8:37-47. SHALOM

Greetings everyone who has commented and everyone who is reading. I see that there are so many differing views regarding the reasons for war and the supidity of the Bush administration. I respect and value each and every one of your views as we all do I am sure. The time now has come that we need to agree that we have different opinions regarding the war but a common thread- WE ARE ALL AGAINST THE WAR AND THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION, REGARDLESS OF OUR SPECIFIC BELIEFS. We need to band together behind this common belief and put or differences of opinion regarding specifics of the situation behind us. I know you disagree with Bush and so do I, so let's get together behind a common agreement, a common goal, let's remove Bush from power and begin a shift to a more intelligent way of living for everyone. Let's band together and set aside or differences of perception. We all know we have a common goal here! Thank you everyone who has voiced their opinion. That is the first and often hardest step! Let us rise against the tide of war, hatred, ignorance, and greed! UNITE!

It is without reservation that I write to your forum, and I do not normally write this type of thing. I am trying to understand impeaching a President who is condemned by a body of self-righteous people not able to know the facts – i.e. people without security clearances? The secrets this country has are only for the President or his appointees - and sometimes not even that - we will not let secrets be known and spies and informants and ongoing operations be in jeopardy because somebody wants to know if the President is a liar. How ignorant you all are. We elected this man to be our Commander in Chief - let's not turn into melting daisies the minute the going gets tough. You are sounding French – as in cheese-eating surrender monkeys. I hope that if and when the WMD come out of hiding and the internal cells in this country flare up and the bombs hit, that you will not cry for help. I am ashamed to call you fellow Americans. And God rest the souls of the soldiers who died for your judgmental ignorance to stomp your feet. God sustain our soldiers and our Christian voice in a country that was founded on a profound belief that God would deliver us and we would be true to Him. Our military leader was given information which trust me, you do not know all of, and he made sound judgments with the help of many individuals we put our trust in. We are not a country to wait for the bombs to fall. We will offensively take a stand where it needs to be taken so that you may live in this land. America – the Free and the Brave. We aim to stay that way – and if you don’t like it, why don’t you move to Iraq or Iran or Korea? You have the right to speak but not the right to control me or infringe on my rights. Thank God we have a President to defend us at home and abroad! You all are fools.

Do you realize you're a religious fundamentalist?
Do you realize you're in favor of totalitarian government (like Iraq was, Iran is, N. Korea be, Soviet Union & Nazis were)?

You're such a gosh-darned idiot that in the same sentence you claim support of a military dictatorship will help us save freedom in the US.
You don't know what freedom is, and you probably could care less about it - what was the last act of liberty you participated in? Watching TV?

Since you're so set on changing our freedom into tyranny, how about YOU get the hell out of this country and move to a dictatorship, sounds like you'd have a better time being around "your kind" (as you "folks" like to say).

First of all, it's extremely difficult to engage in any kind of serious discourse with someone who resorts to juvenile name-calling. We're all intelligent adults here trying to have a discussion on enormously important issues. Secondly, what facts are you referring to exactly windsweptzz? Are you seriously suggesting that in all cases government should be believed and given the benefit of the doubt simply because we stupid sheep don't know enough to disagree? I don't mean to be inflammatory here, but that's the exact kind of philosophy that led to the rise of the Nazi's, and exactly the opposite of what a good democracy is built on, which is debate through free speech. I'll stop short of reffering to anyone here as ignorant, a fool, or self-righteous, petty insults will get us nowhere. I'll also stop short of any grand 1984 type conspiracy theories. However, the facts remain. Our government is currently engaging in innumereable practices which a great many informed, intelligent U.S. citizens take great exception to. This goes far beyond the war in Iraq, including Bush's domestic spying policies, torturing of terror "suspects", profiteering of Halliburton from government contracts in Iraq, and so on. These are just a few issues people have in America and moreso abroad. America is built on freedom of speech and a democratic system in which the people have a voice. If you don't choose to join your fellow Americans in an adult discussion of the issues that some of us have problems with, then perhaps it is you that should move to a less democratic state. No one here is trying to control you or infringe on your rights in any way and I'm at a complete loss to see where that perception arises. The government has decieved us in the past, and if we don't contiunally question their actions they will continue to decieve people who defend the government on the basis that "they know things we don't". If the President held a press conference tomorrow saying we need to engage in a full scale assault on people with brown eyes, would you defend him by saying he "must know something about brown-eyed people we don't?" or simply grab your guns and start looking for the shit-eyed mf's? because that's what your argument implies. Question everything. Peace out.


1. I have had a security clearance and could get one again if need be. I am definately for impeaching President Bush. The secrets in this country are for our government who represent the people of this country....they cannot legally or morally be hidden from our duly elected representatives.

2. No one but the present administration has put any of our spies or informants into jeopardy because we want to know if the President is a liar. He simply has to share information with other government officials that represent the people. They also have security clearances. They can keep his secrets, but will know if he has violated the law. AGAIN...MR. BUSH'S ADMINISTRATION IS THE ONLY UNIT THAT HAS OUTTED A SPY FOR OUR COUNTRY. Her name is Valerie Plame and they did it to punish her husband.

3. It is in dispute as to whether or not this country really elected George Bush, or if he minipulated voting data and records.

4. God rest the souls of the soldies who have died fighting for this country.

5. I am not Christian, but I dare you to call me unpatriotic.

6. How do you know our "military leader" was given information that we do not know all of and made sound judgments with it? REALLY....How do you know??? What do you know?

7. If it weren't for the French we would not have won the war of independance from England. (Please look it up before you arugue). Have you thanked them lately, or are you one of those "what have you done for me lately" kind of guys?

8. Who is your enemy? Usama Bin Laden is still alive. George Bush has said that he doesn't know where he is and doesn't really think about it that much. Mr. Ben Laden is the leader of the terrorists that killed our people. Why hasn't Mr. Bush found and killed him? Why did the Bin Laden family get our military escourt out of the country as soon as it became apparent that they were in danger? Why hasn't George Bush found, killed, captured or tried the leaders of Al Quaida?

9. If the French had marched into our country in 1750 and said "You guys are in, let us beat the English and establish a country for you. There, now isn't that better. Now, let us tell you how to set your country and how to run it." Do you think the United States would be the same country as we are today....HAVING WON OUR FREEDOM OURSELVES AS A RESULT OF OUR OWN CHOICES?

It's interesting that we hear over and over about how this nation was founded to be a Christian country. Read the 1st amendment "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishing of religion..." Thomas Jefferston said "There should a wall built between Church and State". Let's not wrap the flag around the cross and visa versa. They are entirely separate and I am more upset every day by the complete merger of the two.

Your quote from the First Amendment goes on to say, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF ... " which makes an interesting case about kids not being allowed to pray or read religious texts in schools just because they're "offending other students".

But you are correct in saying that this country WAS NOT necessarily founded on Christian principles, although they CERTAINLY had an influence. Jefferson himself was a deist, and even wrote his own version of the Bible which took out all accounts of any supernatural miracles. Conservatives always like to pull the, "Our founding fathers were all great Christian men," card, but this is not necessarily true.

But my main purpose in writing this response is to put your Jefferson quote into context. The quote comes from a letter Jefferson wrote to a group of Baptists who were affirming "Religious Liberty" where he writes in agreement with them, " ... I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State." Liberals always misquote this saying to be, "Oh, that means we should all keep our religious beliefs and morals out of politics!" When all Jefferson was really saying was, "Unless you are causing harm to someone, you should be allowed to freely practice your religion without government interference." Basically, Jefferson meant that the government should stay out of other peoples' religious practices, not the other way around.

Don't get me wrong: I am strongly against using your political position as a pulpit, but think about the absurdity of what you're implying when you quote Jefferson the other way around; you're basically asking people to make political decisions in complete ignorance of their own personal beliefs or morals. You might as well say, "Oh by the way, when you come to Washington or go to vote for the President, rip your heart out first!"

The phrase "Separation of Church and State" has become much like the phrase "Fat Free", where it has become so overused and plugged by so many people that it has lost its original meaning (I think the "official" definition of "Fat Free" now is, "less than 3 grams of fat"). If you're gonna quote one of the founders of this country, at least do it right ...

I hate to read the constitution to you, but the president is commander and chief only of the armed forces in a time of war. Our founding fathers did not want a standing army because they had seen the terrible effects of an ruler with an army. They also saw the armies overthrow many governments and the tremendous cost for a standing army. Their solution was the state militia, controlled by the states except when they are federalized by congress declaring a war. Never is the president commander and chief of the citizens.

Secondly, soldiers and the government do not provide us with freedom, we the people provide freedom. Our daily actions prevent the military and the government from impinging upon our freedoms. Soldiers only provide defense against an enemy real or imagined.

Third, just because some one is democratically elected or a Christian does not make them good. Hilter and all the Axis leaders, except the Japanese Emperior, were Christians and most democratically elected.

Fourth, read the bible. Jesus states firmly that he does not care about the kingdoms (governments) of the world. And he does not choose you over Bin Laden, he loves you both the same. You are both his children and if you are Christian, you are required to love Bin Laden as you love yourself. Just ask yourself if Bush answered the question WWJD (What would Jesus do?)

Lastly, the secrets out, Bush lied to you and still is. You are more likely to die from a terrorist attack today than you were on 9/12. Every action he has taken has been against your own best interest. He does not care about you. He cares about his friends, his supporters, the ones with millions and billions of dollars. He just sees you and me as pawns he must con. Bush and his buds were writing about the necessity of Iraqi regime change back in the 90’s. See and note who signed the statements.

ohh.... you're soooo right. That quote from Grounds-Keeper Willie in "The Simpsons" really changed everyones minds.

Wait- nope. I still believe this: if the the forefathers of this country thought the way you did OUR country wouldn't exist. We would still be "The Colonies." But they didn't: they questioned the powers that be (without security clearances), who were making decisions that were costing the people of this land a lot of money, they called it "Taxation Without Representation." But since you probably never actually READ your history books (too busy watching "The Simpsons"), you wouldn't know that bit of information. I'm glad that the "liberal media" has done its job with you.

Of the 100% of people in our country who are legally eligible to REGISTER to vote, only 50% do. Then only 50%-60% of the people who register actually show up to vote. That means only 25%-40% of our voting population is voting and 60%-75% are not. Do the math. Our votes are SUPPOSED to be majority rules.

I know most people (both Republican AND Democrats) write this off to people not caring enough, blah, blah, blah. While I'm sure there are some people who do not care about the Elections, this is indicative of a huge problem that affects EVERY American. Just don't give them an option in the multiple choice exam we call our elections: you have to Pick A or B. WE ALL NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT FOR A LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO DO NOT VOTE, NOT VOTING IS OPTION C: NON OF THE ABOVE. 75% OF AMERICANS DO NOT WANT TO VOTE FOR EITHER THE REPUBLICANS OR THE DEMOCRATS. That's a Majority MotherF*cker.

That means that the people of this country did not elect the president, THEY DIDN"T ELECT ANYONE.

Thank you, you Cheese-Eating-Surrender-Monkey, for surrendering ALL of your (and my) RIGHTS AS AMERICAN CITIZENS, one by one, for systematic execution by a group of people WHO DO NOT GIVE A SH*T about you, your family or our troops. They would just as soon take the food out of your mouth, the clothes off your back and then drop-kick your baby - oh wait, your christian - I mean babies, if they thought they could make a dollar off of it (and they will not spend that dollar providing our troops with the body armor they need).

As for the Troops, I support the troops. My sister, I supported her for 6 mo, before she joined the Navy, and has now volunteered to go to Baghdad to protect you. I appreciate the troops willingness to die for our rights, those very rights that you and simple-minded folks like you seem so willing to live without so long as you can keep eating your Krusty-Burger and drinking a Squishee from the Quick-e Mart.

I don't see you joining the Military and faites-vous parlent même français?


Big whorls have little whorls which feed on their velocity, and little whorls have lesser whorls and so on into viscosity. - Lewis F. Richardson


Ok, just cuz you type in caps doesn't make you right, just annoying. And in regard to your comments, how is bombing the shit out of a country, reconstituting their oil industry for our own gain, and plunging said nation into civil war doing "a million peopl a great service?" I assume you refer to the Iraqi people with that statement. They might be better off with Saddam out of the way, but what a messy way to do it. Radicalism has no place in government. Also, be wary of government-induced fear. Terrorism has existed forever, and will exist forever. Nothing changed on September 11th but our level of paranoia. This is a fool's war. Do we learn nothing from history? Peace out.

I wonder what temp it takes to melt Democrats?

As of May 2007, the ABC/New York Times Poll results of the new Dem controlled Congress, is actually lower than that of President Bush.

It would appear as though thier breath is hot enonough to melt the thrid building at the WTC.

This must be news to you, but Iraq had nothing to do with the tragedy of 9-11 and Iraq was not a threat to the United States.
You don't even have a clue, do you?
You really think Iraqis think we've done them a great service?
If you asked those million Iraqi's if they would sacrifice 100,000
of their people to get rid of Saddam, do you think they would?
Democracy must come from within not from outside, by force.
There were and are numerous other undemocratic and much more brutal heads of state in this world than Saddam.
Think about the BUSH administrations' MOTIVES!!!!!!
No, you're not blind or stupid. You're just living in

I have never been more ashamed of being an American!!!


How many million of those Iraqi's are better of today then they were before the campaign? How many of them have lost fathers ,mothers, sons, daughters, aunts, uncles , cousins, grandparents? How many of them still live in fear from day to day? The country is on the brink, if not already engaged in a civil war. How much safer are they today?

Dear Soldier;
Thank you for your service and dedication. Your passion for freedom and your willingness to put your own life on the line for that passion speaks volumns about your charector. You and your family are what America is suppose to be about. God bless and keep you safe.
As you are in Iraq you must now know the terrible circumstances those people suffered under Saddam's regime. Hussein loathed Osama
bin Laden and vice versa because bin laden wanted Hussein out. It was the brutality of Saddam Hussein's police that kept insurgencies
at bay.
on 9/11 we were attacked by Al Quida, not Iraq. Although bin Laden is 6 ft. 4 inches tall and on dialysis we still haven't been able to find him. President Bush has stated publicly he doesn't care where bin Laden is.
I applauded the President's invasion of Afghanistan to go get him but it has been all downhill from there. I would ask you to consider one fact that hasn't got much media play but shows how inept our foreign policy is. On the day after 911 in Tehran Iran a public demonstration and candlelight vigil was held where Iranians shouted "death to terrorists" in sympathy to the lost lives of the world trade center. Look at our relations now.
In closing, wether your are for or against this war, God bless you and thank you for your service. America needs more people like you. with deepest regards - m bogart

Some contributors seem to be puzzled about why the Iraq war was waged...was it oil, revenge, the military industrial complex or what? Why look in the crystal ball when you can read it on a website for yourself, to paraphrase.

The Project for a New American Century ( was led by all the usual suspects including Cheney, Jeb Bush, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Libby. It sets out its plans for the middle east and indeed the whole globe. No one should be surprised. This thing has been in the planning for years.

As a Brit I'm appalled that the UK government was dragged in to this criminal war. We protested in our millions and it made no difference. And we even re-elected Blair. But we need to keep up the pressure to ensure the truth comes out.

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