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By davidswanson - Posted on 08 August 2005
with her walk to Crawford, she has done what everyone has been trying to do>>> inform those Americans who do not know or believe what they hear about Bushco's BIG LIE. She broke the divide of ignorance and the veil of deceit into the MSM !!! Cindy has MOMPOWER, because having children is a gift from GOD>>> Bush and Cheney and cronies never should have underestimated that.
Actually, I think giving him time to come out is too damn kind. Don't we all know what he would say if he did meet with her? He would say he really thought Hussein was making a nuke, that he was tied to Al Qaeda and 9.11, and that the Iraqi people had to be liberated. He would say he just did what he did according to the intelligence given him. He would go on about freedom and democracy, and then say the same thing he said to her the first time he met and dismissed her. Then he would have someone snap a picture as he shook her hand, and that's it... I'm sure he has people working on how he can use it to his own benefit right now if he is even thinking of attempting it, because you are giving him so much time to prepare. And to be totally honest, I don't care what he has to say, so I will be removing myself from this particular effort and concentrating more on Congress and the Resolution of Inquiry. If that doesn't get passed, then what do we have?
I simply hope not too much time is spent sitting outside this ranch waiting for this indifferent SOB to come out for a photo op (which I really doubt will happen.)with nothing else being accomplished. I also hope that if this is going to continue that the people there at least mention Bush's crimes in concert with the articles of the constitution he violated, and use the MSM for a change instead of just chanting. I do apologize if this comes off as flippant, but he doesn't even deserve this courtesy.
We know what he did, and so does he, and his advisors are cunning, so look for this to be spun his way as far as it can go. Which is why I get angered by some attempts to "talk to him," and "reason with him," because we already know after five long years of his BS what this is all about. Hopefully this won't backfire and allow him to get others to his side as well. However, it does make for good PR, and I suppose that is what you have to do these days in order to get information out. I do hope it goes well and doesn't turn into a circus down there. I am just of the opinion that other efforts still need to go on too, and that is what I intend to keep doing.
Downing Street Minutes!!!!!!!!!! Over and over again, and say the word IMPEACHMENT period!!!!!!
Also bring up PNAC!!!!!!!!! Over and over and over again!!!!!
So true! It is the PNAC, not the Republicans, that are causing all the turmoil in Bush's (idea of) government. Little men with grand thoughts of world domination. They believe that just because Regean overspent the USSR in military buildup, causing the USSR to go broke in the process and thus, bringing about the 'fall of communism', that the US is intitled to all the marbles in the ring. The trouble is that there is always someone with more marbles waiting to get into the game - and thanks to the inept leading of W and his PNAC cohorts (Cheney, Rumsfield, Bolton etc.), China is the one with the most marbles.
2006 elections are crucial if our country is to survive. We need to elect people who have the guts to 1) impeach the Bush regeme, 2) indict those involved in criminal activities (that means you, Karl), 3) reverse ALL of the policies that W has inflicted on the country - economic, education, environmental, social etc. etc. etc. To do this we absolutly must cleanup our election system - make 'blackbox' voting illegal, use a system that leaves a paper trail and isn't owned by a private corporation that has a vested interest in the outcome of the election (That means you, Diebold!). If we don't do this very soon we will witness the fall of Democracy, the same way the world witnessed the fall of Communism.
Just alittle note here. The USSR fell becuase they were EXPOSED, to a 50 year coverup of Killing 17,000 or more Polish Officers at KATYN', in Russia, at the begining of WWII in 1939, when they were still friends with Germany. Yes they were EXPOSED and HAD TO ADMIT finally in 1989. Then the WALL came down and Poland became free, Too many lies go uncovered throughout history and many, many that continue to tie this group with the past. Almost EVERYONE in the WORLD KNOWS what Bush and his family and friends are all about, and HAVE been about for the last 75 years or more.
You are not correct about Regan ( the Puke ) the Republicians have always been for the dollar, NOTHING ELSE. Just the way Cindy has been shrugged off, is the same way that Sh*thead in the Whitehouse feels about America and our History.
HE MUST BE MADE TO ADMIT, HE MUST BE EXPOSED for everything HE AND HIS GOONS HAVE BEEN UP TO. OR, He and his friends will continue to have the LAST LAUGH, no matter how DEADLY His plans are.
My biggest Fears are that they have SOOOOO, much POWER now. Not even the PRESS can say the TRUTH Anymore, AND those SCARED in Government jobs and Police jobs are LOCKSTEPING this IDIOT.
Which is why I wonder where all the "Cindy Sheehans" were in 2000 when we needed to do this to see the true President serve his term. If we had done so, who knows what history could have been made? The day after the USSC handed Bush this country on a silver platter, I made a sign on a piece of cardboard that read, "Al Gore Is My President." I then went down to my municipal building/city hall, and stood there holding that sign up all by myself for about two hours. I was planning on staying there all day, but then a cop came along and said, "you really need to move on"... Since I was alone I decided to do so, but not without tears in my eyes, after realizing that my Democracy was dead.
Now after five years of this clown's bs after not even attaining the Presidency according to our constitution, I fear he will get away with this as well because we have allowed them all to amass so much power. That is why I don't believe camping out in Crawford will do much of anything but give them time to discredit this effort. I still say pummeling Congress to do what they must do as representatives of the people and stewards of our constitution should be our focal point. Republicans stood up to ask Nixon to resign for the good of this country thirty years ago, and they need to do it again!
I know Ms. Sheeehan is grieving for her son, but in essence I too am grieiving- for my country. Our power as the people lies in the very constitution Bush has shit on. It's time we take that back too, and if the large numbers who think we are all going to pack up and go to Crawford for "Woodstock 05" would approach Congress with the same fury, I actually would have hope that a Resolution of Inquiry could be passed. I'm not trying to demean what anyone in Crawford is doing, I just don't see how it will bring accountability, and as I stated before, the bastard doesn't deserve that courtesy.
Sorry, I forgot to fill out who I was in the preceding post.
IM NOT AFRAID OF PNAC OR THIS IDIOT, WHY THE HELL SHOULD ANYONE BE AFRAID?!?!???
HE'S THE BIGGEST COWARD TO EVER WALK THE SEVEN SEAS!!!!!!!! TEAR THE WALL OF LIES DOWN NOW, HE'S NO DIFFERENT THAN RICHARD M. NIXON!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lets go to it!!!!!!!! And REMOVE the machines from the voting process, by force and by lawsuit!!!!!!
NO MORE!!!!!!!!! WE TAKE IT NO MORE!!!!!!!
Of course their fascism never should have begun>>>
NO MORE FASCIST ORGANIZATIONS THAT ADVOCATE INVASION AND VIOLENCE
WE SHALL BE VIGILANT !!!>>>WE SHALL NEVER FORGET
I agree,with your comments.
Americans have to keep after the GOP Congress and Senate,there not doing there job.
I have to mention the recent death of Robin Cook.
His diaries, listed on the left of this page, are vital in understanding the political climate in Britain at the time of the DSM.
What Cindy Sheehan is doing in Crawford is very important, but the death of Robin Cook and what he did, said and wrote about the lead up to sell Parliament on the war in Iraq, must not be forgot with his passing.
Thank you for your comments of a Hero to citizens worldwide.
Oh, you mean like...
Bush, from so many angles that it’s ridiculous, is a farce. 9/11, as many people are starting to understand, was a farce, which means the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the War on Terror, are also farces. Cheney, a psychopathic thug, is our real "leader." The mainstream media is owned by multi-national conglomerates aligned with the government, and has been totally silenced from giving the people any real news. The military/industrial complex that President Eisenhower warned us about so many years ago is doing whatever it pleases. The CIA, FBI, NSA, and all the other clandestine agencies are way over-funded, and have no oversight, so they are doing whatever they please, too. Congress is scared to death of Cheney’s power and is not responsive to its constituents anymore. International corporations are actually more relevant to the world situation than governments at this point, and they have very few constraints on them – they generally only care about the bottom line. There are major battles going on between all these factions, but we the people are the real losers.
Did I miss anything major? Probably a lot.
I just heard on CNN that Bush has taken "a break from his vacation" to fly off to New Mexico. Out the back door, as they say. Sorry, Cindy...you might be there for a while.
This whole thing seems to be changing from a rational effort to expose and deal with some very serious systemic governance issues into some kind of emotional one-woman show.
With all due respect to Ms. Sheehan and sympathy for a mother's loss, the death of a U.S. serviceman, regretable as it certainly was, is not the entire issue and the narrowing focus does not bode well for resolving real problems in the longer run IMO.
Cindy IS the icebreaker !!!
She has brought her message of "Bush killed my son. What is Bush's 'noble cause'?" out of the blogosphere into the mainstream, even international news in UK, and to the streets of Crawford in about three days>>>, and busloads of people are following Cindy there!!! Don't you get it? Cindy broke the "BIG LIE Divide">>> the Downing Street Memo message is riding in caravans to>>> Crawford and the MSM !
No I don't and I think you're over-stating it to say the least. There was much more coverage than that this previously about the Wilson-Plame affair and about its relationship to the core issues.
Sorry, but I don't see a one-day news story about a woman demanding a second meeting with the President as a major breakthrough for the DSM. It may be "riding in carivans" somewhere, but I didn't see a single MSM mention about it anywhere in connection with this story.
I have other more important things to do. And, obviously, so has the rest of the world. It was a one-day diversion to nowhere.
I'm not abandonning ADS.org unless it totally abandons the primary issues to become a fan club for one person. As for the OutOfIraq.org site, I found it some time ago.
She is representative of THE PEOPLE's sentiments and movement that THE FALLEN must be represented in order to reveal the BIG LIE that killed them>>> Bushco, PNAC , the Downing Street Memos, Rovegate, all of it is connected to get OUT OF IRAQ because of the lies told to the FALLEN. Cindy has moved the people from behind the blogs and on the road to Crawford>>> She is not the only one there>>> She is being joined by all the organizations that are publicizing the Downing Street Memos. They are all FANS OF THE FALLEN, regardless of nationality, who died for lies.
I'll believe it when I see it. All of the MSM publicity that I've seen so far indicates no connection to anything but a one-woman crusade for in-person presidential answers to her own questions. Did I miss all those link-backs somewhere?
New York Times owned, "Wilmington Star-News" (NC), actually ran
Helen Thomas' article, "Haughty Bush flaunts power" today.
In it she lists his abuses of power from Bolton, to the treatment of
John Conyers and Barbara Lee, the Downing Street Memo, his excessive
vacationing, CAFTA, abuse of Press Corps, etc.
While she does not mention Cindy's action in Texas, I feel that
the press Cindy got broke through the noise floor to allow such
an Bush-negative article to be printed in this former "Bush
Fanzine" of a newspaper. If this dramatic of a shift can occur
this deep in the Bible Belt, perhaps the winds of change are blowing
across the country.
Still a doubting Thomas? ;-)
you've missed the big picture.
So don't hold back. Please show me one MSM story about Cindy Sheehan's crusade containing a reference to any other part of the "big picture". In the meantime, I think I'll just ignore this emotional personality cult and go back to efforts by others (Conyers, Lee, McGovern, et al) to deal with some meaningful issues.
Either you have your head in the sand OR you are an embedded poster
You are damamging the thread by keeping this complaint going
The elandslide petition has around 31,500 signers right now which is a lot better than a week ago when it had a miserable 20,000 or so. I think we should go for 200,000 or 300,000 signers. At this point I don't think 1 million is achievable.
if you've signed it FORWARD IT
I can't reach the petition
That petition should have reached half a million by now.
Your complaint is your offense. Go away we are tired of hearing you opinion over and over.
This women is not a one day story. She is standing for all the CHILDREN who have died in this war. She is standing for all the innocent victims of this criminal war. She is standing for what is right, she is standing for what is truth, she is standing for humanity and that is what makes it different from a one day story!
The TRUTH is a troublesome concept to grasp
When it's in the hands of a foe.
It's a slippery, changeable frightening morass
And impossible to know....NOT
Anybody that thinks what is going on in Crawford is about having a meeting with little George Stupid does not have a clue. I seriously doubt that Cindy wants a meeting with little George Stupid any more than Stupid wants a meeting with her. This is abour embarsing the president, this is about exposing his lies, this is about telling the truth of all the people that have died because of his lies, this is abour ultimately holding the liar accountable, this is about impeachment. Go Cindy Go, you have millions of patriots behind you!
W is quite capable of being a complete embarrassment without anyone's help. Meanwhile, Cheney & Company are plotting the next U.S. attack on Iran. Welcome to World War III and thousands more Cindy Sheehans.
We have a huge responsibility to make this government accountable. Name calling only puts us on their level. We must make it clear that we are not going to accept any longer,lies and untruths about this war.
I talked to my sister in Louisiana this morning. My sister lost
her husband in Vietnam. She was so excited about what Cindy was
doing AND what the After Downing Street Movement was doing that
she sat down and wrote letters to the White House, the TV station
that carried the story AND her congressman.
Her comment, "If more people had exposed the bullshit of Vietnam
soon enough, I wouldn't have had to raise my children alone."
That, my friends, is what they mean when they ask, "Is it playing
in Peoria?" The answer, HELL YES!!!
Nobody said that Cindy Sheehan is not an "awesome" person, only that ADS.org should keep its primary focus on the main issues. Be careful that you don't fall into the RNC's reactionary habit of branding all contrary views as being "disloyal" to accepted perspectives.
Look folks, with respect and sympathy, the loss of sons (and fathers and brothers) has been a regretable fact in all of mankind's wars throughout history. Nevertheless, the "justifications" for wars continue to be accepted by many, including a large number of the parents and children and siblings thus affected.
This singular personal appeal to sentiment would, perhaps, be acceptable if it were a useful link and pathway to the underlying real issues, but that doesn't appear to be happening to any great extent so far. In fact, the emotional confrontational approach seems to be provoking at least as much anger as shedding light. If ADS.org and its adherents are to succeed with the larger mission, some of that very angry reaction needs to be understood, if not accepted.
Even in this case, as has been pointed out elsewhere, Bush has met with a number of bereaved relatives who continue to support him and his war just as many others did steadfastly in the past. To the extent that any one person is seen as presenting her or his loss as exceptional, that position risks being seen as nothing more than a self-centred attack on the assurances that others cling to. Evoking such conflicting personal emotions is, it seems to me, unhelpful at best and counter-productive at worst.
As has been said below, if Ms Sheehan real objective were getting the truth about why her son died, she'll wait forever before getting it from George W Bush. Furthermore, if an encounter takes place at all, he will undoubtedly be well prepped to cast the least favourable light possible upon her demand for a second personal meeting and her insistence on having explanations directly from him. The Commander in Chief is instructed only by his God and is answerable to Him alone.
On the other hand, the answers Ms Sheehan says she wants, while somewhat more complex than one might wish, are readily available elsewhere.
The central issue that must be dealt with, however, is the role played by lies and deceptions, not only in instigating the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq, but as a symptom of the broader evils and ills exemplified so blatantly in the current U.S. adminstration. The only effective response to that issue is a rational presentation of the truth as objectively as possible -- unpleasant as some of it may be, especially for those who regard the U.S. border as the end of the civilised world.
Until recently, AfterDowningStreet.org seemed to be addressing that broader and deeper truth-telling need quite well and I sincerly hope it won't be diverted from that pursuit. In any case, here are some other parts of the larger truth:
The first is extracted from an article written by Jason Miller at http://civillibertarian.blogspot.com/
Why do they hate us? President George Bush posed this question to the American public shortly after 9/11. It is a strong affirmation of the power of propaganda that some Americans still pose this as a serious question, and are legitimately dumb-founded that such antipathy exists toward the United States. Our government, media and schools start burnishing the false notion of American moral superiority into our brains at a very young age. However, beneath the thin veneer of their white-washed accounts of history and current events, abundant sources of information reveal the true malevolence of the moneyed elite who rule America. There is a great body of evidence which obliterates the inane notion that the United States is a benevolent world leader. Despite the ready availability of contrary evidence, many Americans remain blind to the truth about our despised nation, and choose to believe the fairy tale version of “truth, justice and the American Way
I couldn't agree more with your sentiments here. PLEASE let's not lose our focus and fall into the trap. This even goes beyond Iraq. It goes to the very heart of the evil that now has a chokehold on this country. Look back to the stolen election of 2000... then follow it to 9.11... then to Iraq... and then to Iran and God knows where else.
dat beech is toopid
From your post, I felt that you were inferring that ADS was losing
it's focus. Forgive me if I misunderstood you.
From my years of activism, I have learned that you can have all the
facts and sound arguments in the world and the people and the media
just don't care. It doesn't penetrate the "noise floor".
Then, you get some piece of activist magic, some thing that seems
insignificant or sophomoric that suddenly changes the playing field.
It is like have a super-saturated salt solution and you drop in one
tiny crystal and the whole thing turns into a crystal.
Suddenly, you have broken through the public consciousness. People
start to ask questions. Suddenly, people are ready to hear your
clever arguments and facts. Once they are in that receptive
mode, they are willing to join your "movement."
The leaders instinctively feel this shift in the public mindset
and they run to the front. They can now "lead" the charge against
the PNAC NEO CONs.
Now, the PNAC NEO CONs are in a spot . . . do they go ahead with
their "Next Pearl Harbor/Operation Northwoods" plans with everyone
watching VERY closely armed with the history/facts/names of players,
. . . or have we maybe just averted WWIII?
I believe this movement is a synergetic effort and that all these
different efforts will crystalize into something bigger than the
sum of the parts.
"Ask me for a contribution, well you know
We all doing what we can
But if you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is brother, you have to wait"
- The Beatles.
From my years of activism, I have learned that you can have all the facts and sound arguments in the world and the people and the media just don't care. It doesn't penetrate the "noise floor".
Very valid points. Hopefully, the results will ultimately support the congressional and other actions to advance the main mission.
I've seen this wonderful website take several sideways journeys based on the news of the day. I think what Cindy is doing is very relevant, as it is the beginning of the kind of people's uprising that it's going to take to get this country straightened out. I do not believe that it will change the discourse of DSM and ADS, rather it will be another factor in the whole picture. The highlights of the fight SHOULD be highlighted, and Cindy is definitely one of them. Thanks, Cindy!!! (I do wish you would mention the DSM in your press interviews, though!)
Cindy does mention the Downing Street Memos. The MSM chooses to edit it out.
I disagree with the statement above about Sheehen distracting attention away from DSM. With her as a spokesperson and a symbol she can focus attention on DSM. Talking heads refering to some obscure memo from 2002 is not going to make it on CNN at 5:00. The memo will not make the AOL Newspage for about 8 hours straight. The mother of a fallen soldier who is asking tough question of the president WILL.
That having been said, I wish Downing Street had more of a presence in Crawford - I see Code Pink there and I see Veterans For Peace but I do not see AFTERDOWNINGSTREET.ORG
CAN SOMEBODY MAKE A FEW SIGNS UP FOR DSM??? Or call down there and try to talk to the media on background about it?? I don't think TV media wants a detailed analysis of the DSM but the print people might make reference to it in their stories
There should be downing street signs and posters around Cindy! Get the info to the press. No matter what, Cindy is opening America up to information that has been repressed from the media. We have had enough of Aruba!
Welcome back, David. Where were you all day? I know of a website or two that's had interference placed on them. I hope that wasn't the case with ADS! (I guess it could have been my ISP.)
Did you have server problems or were you under cyber-fire?
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Innocence shattered and ultimate redemption are portrayed against the backdrop of the Vietnam War and the turbulent sixties.