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Do We Approve of Murder Based on Political Party? Pollsters Don't Want You to Know.

By davidswanson - Posted on 08 February 2012

A poll published on Wednesday at the Washington Post finds that a majority of even "liberal Democrats" approves of Obama killing US citizens.  Of course, this would almost certainly be different if Obama were a Republican. 

What if an organization with money but no partisanship (are there some?) were to commission a poll from a pollster willing to face a firestorm of attacks from the political parties (are there any such pollsters?), a poll that would ask people all their demographic info, including politics and party identification if any, and ask some of them:

If President Obama had to kill a US citizen to protect the nation, based purely on the word of the President, would you approve?

If President Obama had to imprison a US citizen with no trial to protect the nation, based purely on the word of the President, would you approve?

If President Obama had to launch a war without congressional authorization in order to protect the nation, based purely on the word of the President, would you approve?

If President Obama determined it to be necessary to deploy a nuclear bomb and did so, would you approve?

The poll would ask those questions of a large enough sample to be well represented in each demographic category.  Then a similar sample would be asked the  same questions with Romney substituted for Obama.  Then others would be asked the questions about a President Santorum, and others with Gingrich. 

The results would almost certainly show that many in the United States do indeed place loyalty to political parties or elected officials above matters of life and death -- at least the lives and deaths of others.

This would, of course, be shameful, and if it made it into the corporate news it would make all types of partisanship look bad.  It might, very likely, however, make one brand of partisanship look worst.  I would predict that Republicans would each be highly approving of these abuses by at least one Republican candidate, and that their approval would diminish for the others, and especially for Obama.  Democrats, I expect, would be less approving, but still strongly approving in the case of Obama, but that there would be a particularly significant drop off in approval by Democrats of such crimes if committed by any of the Republicans. 

What pollster would be willing to test these assumptions?

Of course, in reality there is such a thing as being too late.  Opposing abuses when Bush is president, but limiting the opposition at the behest of the Democratic Party, was followed by support for Obama's protection of and continuation and expansion of the crimes.  Now shady Bush policies have become open "legal" practice.  It is too late to take them back from the next Republican president, or any president, without fundamental change to our government.  If we continue down the current path, eventually the partisanship will retreat on this issue and supporters of presidential murder will tend to support it by any president and to imagine that no alternative to that exists.


Glenn Greenwald makes a similar argument how Liberalism has shifted, degenerated towards despotism, Fascism and Empire. My

response was this:


It might come as a surprise to many,  but the formal logic and identification of class ideologies, whether liberal or conservative, even socialist and labor parties cannot have any meaning in degenerating, changing, devolving class ideologies.

The constant class compromises, embrace of class centers, whether relative or extreme class despotism renders politcal labels useless, emptied of their original meaning so long as all class ideologies embracing their link to class hierarchies, conserve false social centers, false centrisms and shifting collectively towards fascist appeasement and finally Fascism itself, the embrace of a police state and police Fascism, all of which has happed to the whole West through its deformed trajectory towards WESTERN FASCISM.

Ideology in class deformed historical cycles are emptied of their partial social contents, shifting ever to the totalitarian Matrix, rendering all social reformists, sell outs, then totalitarian appeasers, finally collapsing into Fascist Totalitarianism.

The early Greeks saw this degenerating class and ideological deformation and devolving class process operating always as a top down, Orwellian thuggish class process enabled by class hierarchies, and its deformed class elites, hence the deformed crippled class Republics and class democracies morphing into Class Empires and class tyrants, where all ideologies have been corrupted beyond any original understanding of their starting point.

We need a social language to understand that all class ideologies conserve totalitarian class hierarchies and a new theory of History and strategies. We need a social manifesto to take down global fascism and Late Capitalism, class history itself:

Repulsive progressive hypocrisy


But understanding WHY and HOW this is accomplished does require a new theory of history and social Manfesto:


We already know through history that LIBERALISM and CONSERVATISM, and all related class reformist parties, sold out, betrayed and "punked" social principles to become class whores, class shills, empire thugs, apologists for class Empire, Obama apologists.


Back in the 1970's the dogma of single issues, whether civil rights of the feminist movement, OR civil rights opportunists,  disconnected like the class liberals of the POST Enlightenment economic justice for special, political rights of certain groups.   We already knew then that the HILLARY CLINTONS, OBAMA'S, were on their way to replace substitute themselves for the GOOD OLD WHITEBOY NETWORK, WHITE CLASS HIERARCHY to become the new class whores, empire thugs for Late capitalism, even Fascism.

These equal opporunity, opportunistic shills, middle class feminist and equal opportunity civil right class thugs, have proven that they  are                 just continuing the class compromises, betrayals of social principles, that were once the principles of revolutionary liberals and the Enlightenment for the POST, CLASS DEFORMED Enlightenment of Late Capitalism and Fascism.   Disgusting liberal apologists have never understood the central core of their class whoring ideology, historical betrayals continues to degenerate into fascist appeasement, then Fascism itself.   Anyone who calls themself a Liberal, today must realize that this class party has drifted into CRIMINALITY AND FASCISM:


Rank-and-File Dems Punk Out on Drones & Guantanamo



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